PES 2017 Demo Available on Xbox One, PS4, PS3 - Post Your Impressions

[elprez98]

A couple more little things I love in PES.

1. The passing. When I turn passing assistance completely off, it is off. Then ball always goes where I expect it, whether it is a good pass or not.

2. Heading. If I have Metersacker and a cross is floated I don't have Messi or Neymar out jumping me. I mean driven crosses are of course a different story but height actually matters with heading and I can't say the same about the other game.

[RoyceDa59]

I really miss some those old stats especially Shot Technique and especially Team work those were key to really get some players to play close to lifelike before the introduction of "Player ID". I remember those days of playing PES 4-6 and frequenting one of my favorite sites back then Pes Stats Database and discussing ratings and formations, good times.

I will say that one thing this year version Konami has done a great job making teams play through their star players and it is present through every team in the demo, even on the national teams.

Quote: Originally Posted by phillyfan23

Just wondering, what was your biggest margin of victory against the cpu on top player or above ? Just worried that there is rubberbanding....up by 2 goals, and the cpu will at least score one back. Any 2-0 or 3-0 wins on the demo???

I have had a few, 3-0 and 2-0 wins. My 3-0 win came on Top player against Boca using Arsenal though. But I haven't noticed any rubber-band AI, teams will press a lot when they are down or late in the match maybe that is what you are seeing. When I notice this I usually just switch to the Tiki-Taka Advance tactic.

[papinho81]

Nice video Matt as always!

I think tactics are very important in collective sports practiced at the high level in general and in football particularly.

Some teams made of average players manage to make it because of their well prepared and strong adherence to tactic while others teams made of very good players fail because of not well designed tactic for the team or poor adherence to it. One good example for the first category is Island during the last Euro. If they went so far in this tournament I think it is because they had a simple and well defined tactics with players that strictly stick to it. The reason why they collapsed against France was very likely because they were burnt. Last year Chelsea was probably a good example for the second category (might be more the adherence to the coach but in the end the result is the same).

So definitively in real life football tactic is very important but the adherence to it varies between teams and through time. I guess this is something very hard for developers to implement into a video game.



Based on the PES17 demo (didn’t play pes since pes4) it seems to me that tactics and the strong adherence to it is what brings teams personality into the game. Has Gnemi said I also prefer team personality due to strong adherence to tactic rather than no team personality and tactic marginally having an impact on the game.

To me the problem seems to be more that the “real life” team tactics have been poorly translated into video game tactic.

The example of Barcelona is the most striking. As you guys said their pressing is so insane! If you play with Barcelona you will have hard time recreating this insane pressure except if you use double or triple press square and you can be sure your opponent will punish any error with long ball in the back of the defense. So here it is clearly a matter of tactic but also mentality (double triple pressing) that I hope we will be able to adjust in the full game.
Also the formation of Barcelona is not perfectly appropriate for this kind of high pressing. In the demo PES assigned a wrong role to Busquets. In the game he is a CMF and it is why we see him so often up pitch. Sometimes in finishing position something that almost never happens to him in real life. In real life Busquets is CDM and his role, as a sentinel of the midfield (between the midfield and the defense either in attack or defense), is essential in the high pressure and possession tactic Barcelona uses. This is because he is able to offer a “safe” pass possibility by staying in that zone but also to cover the back of fullback when they are involved in the pressing. He is himself rarely involved in this high pressure phase in the opponent half. Playing myself with FCB, now I change Busquest role to CDM and it could be placebo but I think it has helped me to win game with FCB. Before that, I was losing most of my game with FCB because of long balls in the back of my defense.

Barcelona is not the only team with tactics poorly implemented. If you take the example of Arsenal with the offensive full back tactic it is very obvious when you start from your defense with the ball searching for pass possibilities that the FB are walking side by side with the LMF or RMF. Either the FBs are to high pitch or it is the midfielders that are too low. I think if we could assign these midfielders the role of winger it would help in that department.

Then, wingers that have been said to stay on the line (France for example) really stick a bit too much to the line while they could probably eat space better when the ball is on the other side of the pitch.

I love to play with Germany because I think this team has a really nice tactic implemented. They are so well positioned in defense and also move very well up pitch when you have the ball. I am not sure it sticks well to the real Germany tactic (I would say yes) but a great feeling of solidity transpires out of it.



Sorry for this long post. As a summary I would say tactics are very important in modern top level football. Players have to adhere to tactic in order to have a good coordination thus a team game. Tactic and strong adherence to it seems to be what gives team personality in PES17 demo. But, out of the box tactics are not well designed/tuned by PES. Hopefully we can adjust this in the final game.

Edit: Side note,
Have you seen any shot by the cpu above the cross bar? Because I didn't.

[Bixer]

While I haven't played the previous few iterations of PES much, I'm personally glad that player stats such as 'Teamwork' are no longer there - seems a bit silly imo.

How well a player fits into a team/listens to tactics depends purely on the team/system they're in and how well they get on with their manager.

I don't think an arbitrary number should follow a player around at every club they join, leaving them destined to potentially be 'stubborn' no matter which team buys them or what setup they're deployed in.

You only have to look at Hazard already this season vs. last season to see how much such a 'number' would drastically change - it's not really feasible to have it set permanently in a game.

[bredfan]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bixer

While I haven't played the previous few iterations of PES much, I'm personally glad that player stats such as 'Teamwork' are no longer there - seems a bit silly imo. How well a player fits into a team/listens to tactics depends purely on the team/system they're in and how well they get on with their manager. I don't think an arbitrary number should follow a player around at every club they join, leaving them destined to potentially be 'stubborn' no matter which team buys them or what setup they're deployed in. You only have to look at Hazard already this season vs. last season to see how much such a 'number' would drastically change - it's not really feasible to have it set permanently in a game.

If 17 is anything like last year there will be a "teamwork" stat in Master League. They called it "team spirit" last year.

If you changed tactics, formation, lineups, or brought in players that had differing strengths compared to your team tactics, that number would go down until you "acclimated" your team.

There was an easy way around it by just editing the team or players to suit your tactics, but it had a much more profound effect than I would have liked.

Like, even giving a starter a rest because they accumulated too much fatigue (Which is another problem with Master League. The way Fatigue is handled seems kind off off. But that's another discussion) and bringing in a rotation player would cause your TS to drop.

Again, not sure if it'll be in this year, but I'm sure even if they don't show you the value it'll be buried in there somewhere. It's an easy way to make games play differently.

[papinho81]

To continue on the Barcelona tactic discussion. It seems they only play in the game as they should (real life counterpart) when in defensive mode (sky blue level). Only then they produce a real possession play.

[papinho81]

Here is an interesting article explaining quite nicely Barcelona tactic and among things how Busquets has been "formatted" in la Masia since he is 8 years old to play the role he is currently having in the Barcelona tactic.

http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2015...ampions-league

[nunogomes]

Quote: Originally Posted by papinho81

To continue on the Barcelona tactic discussion. It seems they only play in the game as they should (real life counterpart) when in defensive mode (sky blue level). Only then they produce a real possession play.

Yeah, even with the crazy pressure thing, they don´t always start like that.

Yesterday i was playing as Atletico Madrid vs Barcelona (CPU) and in the first 20/25 minutes (game time) i would not be pressured by 2 or even 3 guys, it was always just 1, and most of the times he would even back off if i was near my own goal.

After those 20/25 minutes, without any change in the score, comes the double and triple relentless pressure and it lasted until the 60 minute of 2nd half, when they scored. After the score, they just kept doing the normal pressure...

I enjoyed it honestly, because it was a notable change without any team scoring!

Still saw Suarez being substituted... don´t know what´s happening but either he or Messi get substituted like 70% of the games against me...