PES 2017 Demo Available on Xbox One, PS4, PS3 - Post Your Impressions

[Matt10]

Quote: Originally Posted by Battle4MY

Great video Mat. Excellent points.

Thanks, man!

Quote: Originally Posted by Ac3way

Play real football, there you see all kind of weird stuff and even watching top level football from tv. 🙂 I get what your saying and agree what you are showing, but i think overall game runs great from pointview of hardcore football fan. There is improvement to made, but looking for errors is bit pointless when we have probably best football game ever made. Of course not everyone has to like game, but i suggest to try enjoying PES 2017 even from it flaws. My pointview comes from full manual controls and superstar difficulty. I havent even trying top player or professional difficulty at demo. Edit. I liked to read that post from you about professional difficulty, can you show where is it?

I do play real football, have played for years in high school, college and pro. No defender I ever met would attack that way. As an attacker, you make your decision based on what the attacking defenders are doing. You do not expect to be draped in coverage, even when the opponent has the ball and is controlling possession - it's illogical.

I'm not sure what deems "hardcore" football fan, but in my opinion - every element should be covered to be completely hard core. This positioning is far from football, let alone hardcore football. When has a DMF ever stayed that far back...in the attack...just so they can catch the lone striker on transition...when it's inside 20 minutes of a match. Please.

I love this demo, love where we're headed, but I'm not going to be in denial of it's faults. That's how they get better, just like anything in this world.

Here's the link to my professional difficulty thoughts: http://www.operationsports.com/forum...&postcount=149

[elprez98]

Quote: Originally Posted by Matt10

Here's the video:

I don't know Matt.

I was playing quite a bit the other day and I've seen a CDM inside the 18, when I was already losing 2 or 3 to nil.

As a matter of fact, the video I posted earlier clearly has Busquets "Zidaning" me in the box along with Alves attacking on the wing, and ending the move with pass to Suarez for an easy finish.

[Matt10]

Quote: Originally Posted by elprez98

I don't know Matt. I was playing quite a bit the other day and I've seen a CDM inside the 18, when I was already losing 2 or 3 to nil. As a matter of fact, the video I posted earlier clearly has Busquets "Zidaning" me in the box along with Alves attacking on the wing, and ending the move with pass to Suarez for an easy finish.

This is a consistent issue that stems from PES 16, it's not a one off or team specific. It happens for every team. The reason there is so much space, and the reason the CPU loves to pass the ball forward - and straight to an attacker - is because the defense isn't actually playing a zone. They're not playing a zone properly because they didn't attack properly in the first place. They never left their man in the attack, but they left him in the defense. Don't you see? It's a flaw in the system and understanding. I fear it's teaching people that this is how teams actually play IRL. The defense dictates what the attackers do, not the other way around.

[Ac3way]

It' hard or almost unpossible to get all things right at football game. There is development to made at more dynamic positioning and attacking/defending. But it's not just fixing one thing, there is so many elements and little details to that. After that there is 95% players who dont understand football tactics and little details or dosent even want to know that kind things at videogame.

Also console power are at almost there limit. PES has been with FOX-engine much about tactics, rather than AI. Perhaps with new consoles like PS4 Neo we will see Konami take even more development to AI and even more fluid gameplay from AI. More organic and humanlike, there is the future for PES and Konami.

[JimmyDeicide]

Matt is dead right , its hard coded into the players. Its either off or on doesn't seem to be any in between.
I never purchased 16 because of what i used to think was terrible defensive AI around the box where a defender would just ignore the threat and completely run away from you but you can see now it was probably just a change of possession and they where either hitting the defensive mindset or the attack mind set.
There needs to be an in between where they can recognize the immediate threat around them and react to that not where they should be positionaly..

If they can compress the field here the game would be epic.
Tell me this game right now isn't screaming for Fifa line settings.
I dont think changing player stats is going to fix it.

It will be interesting to see how the defense reacts if your tactic is gegen press.
What makes it more niggling right now is because when there is a break down in play and players are caught inbetween the AI is so good they see openings right away and will ping long ball over the top its really awesome to watch but we dont see it enough cos teams are always playing 3 sweepers if anyone remembers what they where Konami do.

[BL8001]

If you set marking and the cpu set marking correctly this defensive issue would be disguised more.

IRL Defenders do stay back. I see it all, the time, and they stay back with 3 at times even with only 1 striker threat.

Watching man city do it right now.

Now with an attacking rb or lb we should see rotation. If that player joins the attack, the remaining 3 should rotate to fill his empty slot.

Here is where marking correctly would make the difference. If the rb takes a slashing run forward and the possession is lost his immediate goal would be to locate his mark. Because knowing there are 3 back would mean his team was not in jeopardy if his mark was within marking distance.

Marking would also mean if you were marking the RM and he was down near his own penalty area then you can come down and join the attack while watching your mark.

[JimmyDeicide]

Its not how many guys are left on defense its their gap control that seems off too me they just retreat to the 18 yrd box pretty much.

[Matt10]

Quote: Originally Posted by JimmyDeicide

Matt is dead right , its hard coded into the players. Its either off or on doesn't seem to be any in between. I never purchased 16 because of what i used to think was terrible defensive AI around the box where a defender would just ignore the threat and completely run away from you but you can see now it was probably just a change of possession and they where either hitting the defensive mindset or the attack mind set. There needs to be an in between where they can recognize the immediate threat around them and react to that not where they should be positionaly.. If they can compress the field here the game would be epic. Tell me this game right now isn't screaming for Fifa line settings. I dont think changing player stats is going to fix it. It will be interesting to see how the defense reacts if your tactic is gegen press. What makes it more niggling right now is because when there is a break down in play and players are caught inbetween the AI is so good they see openings right away and will ping long ball over the top its really awesome to watch but we dont see it enough cos teams are always playing 3 sweepers if anyone remembers what they where Konami do.

Yeah, it's back to the same issues FIFA has, Compression and Decompression of the pitch. The issue here is that the width of the CB's proves that there is no true zonal marking - that should be a worry because with no zonal marking, means a man marking will be the focus, even on the attack. That is not how defending, or attacking, from defensive backs, works.

I do believe it's hard coded as I did try everything with PES 16, but they just don't budge. Even increasing the line height, lowering defensive prowess, increasing defensive prowess, adding on join in attack values, the works - they just don't budge away from the half, and they don't spread out far enough.

Giving up the defensive third the second there is a change in possession is the opposite of what a defensive line should do, especially against one attacker. This is why attackers in PES 17 demo will often find themselves able to turn and face goal with ease, and it can easily become an end to end match 70% of the time.

Quote: Originally Posted by BL8001

If you set marking and the cpu set marking correctly this defensive issue would be disguised more. IRL Defenders do stay back. I see it all, the time, and they stay back with 3 at times even with only 1 striker threat. Watching man city do it right now. Now with an attacking rb or lb we should see rotation. If that player joins the attack, the remaining 3 should rotate to fill his empty slot. Here is where marking correctly would make the difference. If the rb takes a slashing run forward and the possession is lost his immediate goal would be to locate his mark. Because knowing there are 3 back would mean his team was not in jeopardy if his mark was within marking distance. Marking would also mean if you were marking the RM and he was down near his own penalty area then you can come down and join the attack while watching your mark.

Yes, they do stay back, pertaining to tactics. I do not want every team to have the same look, but they definitely should not be perfectly aligned across the pitch. This isn't red-rover, lol. In addition, the CDM placed directly in front of the CB's - and along their perfect line, is a failed grasp on the actual role of a DMF, it's like an inverted sweeper more than anything lol.

It's purely down to zonal vs man-marking again. Some of the old code from PES 14, that worked its way into PES 15 and continued on into PES 16.

Yet again, it's another one of those things that would not even hurt the game a lick. It would improve it beyond measures, and enhance it to levels of absolute joy considering the physics this game has.