NBA 2K17: The Winners and Losers from Free Agency

[DBMcGee3]

Quote: Originally Posted by WaddupCouzin

You completely whiffed on your Laker Take!

How so? You stoked on that Mozgov deal? I love Deng, but he's got more miles on those knees than Forrest Gump. You think he'll be giving them anything 2 years from now? I don't.

That being said, finally getting rid of Kobe was great for them, and Ingram is an excellent player, he'll really help them when he bulks up a little.

[ParisB]

Personally I think your Lakers take is way off and just following the over reactionary masses.

They replaced a brutally bad and ineffective Kobe and Hibbert with quality NBA players while not blocking any of the promising core. Deng can start and be adequate until Ingram is ready in 1-2 years. He will still be a quality reserve in years 3-4 playing limited minutes. Mozgov got some flak last year because of his injury but don't forget he played a critical role as a counter to small ball two years ago. He fills a need for an elite PnR finisher and screen setter. He's only 29 and can hold the fort until Zubac is ready.

People overreacted with the salaries but that's just new economics. It doesn't look bad anymore and certainly won't in 2018 when the cap goes up even more.

4 years is kind of a lot but that's just the price to pay to get some players. Why use Max slot on role players? Build the young guys. Ingram and Russell will be stars.

People act like Lakers were missing all these free agents but in reality so are the 28 other teams. We don't even know if any of these guys were ever really interested anyways. Most stayed with their teams while the few that did chose contenders.

Having cap space for top tier free agent is overrated until your next is built and you are more attractive. Last two years they held on hope and by the time the big fish signed, they had to pick scraps. This year they went after their biggest needs (SF and C) right away.

Need to field a better product and develop the youth. Mission accomplished

[The_Gaming_Disciple]

The Orlando Magic will RISE!!!

- You heard it here folks!

[ChaseB]

Quote: Originally Posted by coolcras7

I Think you meant to say Injury still out

Ha, high five for that one.

Quote: Originally Posted by ParisB

Personally I think your Lakers take is way off and just following the over reactionary masses. They replaced a brutally bad and ineffective Kobe and Hibbert with quality NBA players while not blocking any of the promising core. Deng can start and be adequate until Ingram is ready in 1-2 years. He will still be a quality reserve in years 3-4 playing limited minutes. Mozgov got some flak last year because of his injury but don't forget he played a critical role as a counter to small ball two years ago. He fills a need for an elite PnR finisher and screen setter. He's only 29 and can hold the fort until Zubac is ready. People overreacted with the salaries but that's just new economics. It doesn't look bad anymore and certainly won't in 2018 when the cap goes up even more. 4 years is kind of a lot but that's just the price to pay to get some players. Why use Max slot on role players? Build the young guys. Ingram and Russell will be stars. People act like Lakers were missing all these free agents but in reality so are the 28 other teams. We don't even know if any of these guys were ever really interested anyways. Most stayed with their teams while the few that did chose contenders. Having cap space for top tier free agent is overrated until your next is built and you are more attractive. Last two years they held on hope and by the time the big fish signed, they had to pick scraps. This year they went after their biggest needs (SF and C) right away. Need to field a better product and develop the youth. Mission accomplished

Cap levels off after the 2017-18 season, and those contracts look bad even today because it's easy to convert thew "new-age" salaries into what they look like under the old terms of the salary cap. Paying 15+ million each to those two players (Deng with a million miles on his legs, and Mozzy who is already a 30-year-old center who was objectively bad last season) are just not good bets to look good then for their 3rd and 4th seasons. Better centers (and better fits) were out there, and shorter-term deals were out there for swing men.

It's not being part of the reactionary masses to point these things out. Deng had a solid season and found himself again at the 4 (like Joe Johnson did), but it doesn't change the age and miles and risk. Mozgov was never healthy and plain bad.

Beyond that, Mozgov is a bad fit (better pick and roll player than Hibbert, but also doesn't have the spacing or LeBron around him to make it so easy -- and he's not remotely in the same universe as Bogut as a passer to fit the Walton/GSW system), and if you were concerned about Hibbert, then Mozgov is on that same timeline right now it appears, with a scary injury on top of it. Deng is like Noah in that maybe next year the deal doesn't look so awful, but it's bad news long term simply based on the history of similar players and minutes played.

Beyond that, I'm simply never going to get down with the "well no one else would take their money angle." Even if that's the case, couldn't they look outside the box and don't go to 3 and 4 years for players you know by default will be overpaid by then? Every team out there got players to come and sign this offseason, the Lakers could get some guys to sign.

That being said, yes, it does come down to the Lakers young talent either way. If there aren't enough keepers among Russell and Randle and Ingram and Clarkson, then none of this stuff matters anyway (they were going to be a bottom 5 team by default either way this upcoming season, which is fine), and those first 3 are still on rookie deals (thus cheap by default).

[WaddupCouzin]

Quote: Originally Posted by ChaseB

Ha, high five for that one. Cap levels off after the 2017-18 season, and those contracts look bad even today because it's easy to convert thew "new-age" salaries into what they look like under the old terms of the salary cap. Paying 15+ million each to those two players (Deng with a million miles on his legs, and Mozzy who is already a 30-year-old center who was objectively bad last season) are just not good bets to look good then for their 3rd and 4th seasons. Better centers (and better fits) were out there, and shorter-term deals were out there for swing men. It's not being part of the reactionary masses to point these things out. Deng had a solid season and found himself again at the 4 (like Joe Johnson did), but it doesn't change the age and miles and risk. Mozgov was never healthy and plain bad. Beyond that, Mozgov is a bad fit (better pick and roll player than Hibbert, but also doesn't have the spacing or LeBron around him to make it so easy -- and he's not remotely in the same universe as Bogut as a passer to fit the Walton/GSW system), and if you were concerned about Hibbert, then Mozgov is on that same timeline right now it appears, with a scary injury on top of it. Deng is like Noah in that maybe next year the deal doesn't look so awful, but it's bad news long term simply based on the history of similar players and minutes played. Beyond that, I'm simply never going to get down with the "well no one else would take their money angle." Even if that's the case, couldn't they look outside the box and don't go to 3 and 4 years for players you know by default will be overpaid by then? Every team out there got players to come and sign this offseason, the Lakers could get some guys to sign. That being said, yes, it does come down to the Lakers young talent either way. If there aren't enough keepers among Russell and Randle and Ingram and Clarkson, then none of this stuff matters anyway (they were going to be a bottom 5 team by default either way this upcoming season, which is fine), and those first 3 are still on rookie deals (thus cheap by default).

By all accounts, Mozgov was hurt last year, so you can statistically throw that out. To say he was never healthy and plain bad, is not accurate, if that's the case Cleveland would not have sent 2 First round draft picks for him in the first place. I think your take is looking at this from a strictly X's and O's standpoint, but the Lakers had a bad locker room last year, so I think they were also looking for Veterans to have a more potentially positive impact on their young team. In your 4th paragraph, I would usually agree with this, but in a year where the Salary Floor means you have to spend money at least $81 million, the players had the leverage, If you didn't spend, someone else would. It what Universe is Mike Conley supposed to make $30 million dollars, that's a joke unto itself.

[ChaseB]

Quote: Originally Posted by WaddupCouzin

By all accounts, Mozgov was hurt last year, so you can statistically throw that out. To say he was never healthy and plain bad, is not accurate, if that's the case Cleveland would not have sent 2 First round draft picks for him in the first place. I think your take is looking at this from a strictly X's and O's standpoint, but the Lakers had a bad locker room last year, so I think they were also looking for Veterans to have a more potentially positive impact on their young team. In your 4th paragraph, I would usually agree with this, but in a year where the Salary Floor means you have to spend money at least $81 million, the players had the leverage, If you didn't spend, someone else would. It what Universe is Mike Conley supposed to make $30 million dollars, that's a joke unto itself.

He was plain bad last year, that's what I was referring to. And considering the rehab for his injury was apparently botched, and again, he's a large human entering his age 30 season, four-year deals for those kinds of players is a scary proposition. What he was traded for in the past also would have nothing to do with his present and future as paying for old production is not why you hand out deals. You hand out deals based on future projection.

All the Salary Floor means is that money gets spent on your own guys if you don't reach the floor, and you have until after the trade deadline to reach the floor anyway before it's even a thing. It's a non-issue.

If you want to bring in veterans, you don't need to bring in ones that demand four-year deals. I can look around the league and see plenty of veterans who signed 1 or 2-year deals (even the LOLtastic Kings didn't get sucked into doing lots of long-term deals for veterans except for Temple -- though that one was baffling as well). Again, spending just to spend when there's still opportunity cost tied to it is as wasteful as giving Swaggy P a four-year contract. It closes down options in the present and future unnecessarily is basically the general point.

[KG]

The Lakers were a 17 win roadshow last year. IMO the acquisition of these 2 guys given their milage and injury history isn't worth ~$140 mil. All indications (from Walton's comments) are that he prefers a faster pace and wrapping up $60+ mil in an aging/injury prone center doesn't seem like a good fit. For that price they could have gone after Ian Mahimi whose around the same #'s production-wise, is a better P&R defender, and doesn't have the injury history. Now, whether or not they pursued him or if he was even interested is beyond me. Hindsight is 20/20 but even Ezeli (battling his own injury issues this year) would have been money better spent IMO.

In regards to Deng, my only issue is the years. $18 mil for a player whose going to be stop-gap and can give you some minutes as a stretch 4 isn't that bad but in years 3 & 4 when Ingram should be starting to physically fill-out you're going to be paying an awful lot to a backup whose averaged a little under 60 games per year over the last 7. Again, to me that's just a lot for a stop-gap.

If the Lakers are going to be committed to their youth (which they should be IMO) then they need to patient. These 2 moves, agreed upon in principle early in the FA period, looked like panic moves to me.

[Izzy Snow]

The Wizards also added Tomas Satoransky. I may be biased but the Wiz didn't do too bad after missing out on KD and Al Horford. They should be good enough for 7th or 8th seed as long as they can stay healthy.