Do You Care About Dangerous Hits in Madden?

[Ampking101]

If the tackling engine was tied to injuries I might care but it seems very much now that injuries rely on a dice roll and the injury gets randomized. The fact that I can see the slightest wrap up tackle cause a Ruptured Disk but I can see a huge (and sometimes questionable) hit and the player just jumps right up after like nothing happened when one of the players would at best have a take a couple plays off after something like that, not to mention that where they get hit doesn't seem to matter where injuries are concerned either, I've seen incidental "helmet to helmet" hits in the game (which was mostly due to a diving player hitting a player being tackled) amount to a bruised sternum when it clearly would have been a concussion or neck injury. It is utterly unrealistic and completely pulls me out of the game when I see an occurrence like that.

I know the NFL wants to tone down big hits and wants to separate things like concussions and injuries being tied to those big hits (and I would venture that if they could have their way completely that injuries would be completely removed from madden).

So when I see a hit like the one in the article, I don't even think twice about it. There are no consequences on either side (you know it won't increase the likelyhood of an injury to the ball carrier or the defender) and there certainly is no benefit to having it in the game except for it being something you would see a dirty player do in the NFL. At this point I would rather just cut out big or questionable hits altogether and make every tackle a wrap up tackle because at this point seeing a player either get or deliver a leveling hit and then brush it off like any other wrap up tackle just screams "video game" and pulls me out of the game.

There is a reason the Antonio Brown and Vontaze Burfict hit was so controversial and widely discussed, that is something that could never happen in Madden (even though you can see players connect in a similar manner) but it does happen in the NFL more often than we like to admit. I also understand why the NFL would want to pull away from that image (especially with all the recent early retirements and the result of the CTE discussions) and I am glad that NFL Blitz style hits are gone, it still doesn't change the fact that there is no weight to hits like in the article.

If you are going to program the game to allow hits like this and you are going to talk about adding penalties for it to make it realistic then you NEED to make it realistic with injuries and the consequences tied to those kinds of hits. You can't pick and choose what is realistic and what isn't and thus is also the perfect time to discuss adding a system for player suspensions in the game (which has happened a lot as of late and a lot of Franchise commissioners would like a feature like this for players who break rules) which I know will never see its way into the game even though it is realistic. I'm really all for making the game more true to life, however if you are going to do so, you need to do it completely and not in half measures.

[Junior Moe]

I hate to say it but I really don't. I don't want NFL Blitz or anything, but some big, occasionally crushing, hits are good to me. I mean, it's football. I get the player safety aspect but it's also a game. I watch footage from the old NFL days on NFL network and i cant lie, sometimes i wanna crank Madden and bust some heads after watching those old Steeler and Raider defenses. Maybe give us a slider so that we may tweak it to our liking.

[half-fast]

I can agree with most of the post, but it's almost as if you're saying that physics-based is not the way to go because it looks bad, as if they've "completed" improving it. It will get better every year. EA FIFA(soccer wasnt mentioned, erroneously) went through an odd year or two when they were developing their new contact engine. I mean, its far from perfect still, ridiculous animations happen, but it looks pretty good in the overall, so much so that I, a regular soccer fan can enjoy the tackles.

Ive been wanting companies to get rid of animations for years. Theyre holding graphical fidelity up, but hold down the realism of the game. Eventually, everything all contact in any sports game needs to be fully dynamic and physics based - its the only way of the future. Id be willing to keep graphics the way they are now, and have EA, 2K, SCEA and the like only work on physics and AI. I'm so done with canned animations and limited outcomes.

As for leaving out the dangerous plays? I think if it's in the game, we should see it in the simulation representation. There's only a matter of time before games get so good, that youll be playing a "safe" version of your game, that has all kinds of dynamic, realistic, surprising and regular outcomes that you could ask for, but you'll be watching hockey one day and think, "Why wasnt that high-stick and injury I saw in the the real game in the video game?". Sadly, fewer injuries and dangerous plays = few outcomes, and is not realistic.

[mrprice33]

Not to speak for the author, but I think the issue highlighted via the embedded video is the late cleanup hits that come well after the whistle.

[roadman]

My comment was directed at people wanting more big hits.

EA needs to clean up the physics system.

[mrprice33]

Quote: Originally Posted by half-fast

I can agree with most of the post, but it's almost as if you're saying that physics-based is not the way to go because it looks bad, as if they've "completed" improving it. It will get better every year. EA FIFA(soccer wasnt mentioned, erroneously) went through an odd year or two when they were developing their new contact engine. I mean, its far from perfect still, ridiculous animations happen, but it looks pretty good in the overall, so much so that I, a regular soccer fan can enjoy the tackles. Ive been wanting companies to get rid of animations for years. Theyre holding graphical fidelity up, but hold down the realism of the game. Eventually, everything all contact in any sports game needs to be fully dynamic and physics based - its the only way of the future. Id be willing to keep graphics the way they are now, and have EA, 2K, SCEA and the like only work on physics and AI. I'm so done with canned animations and limited outcomes. As for leaving out the dangerous plays? I think if it's in the game, we should see it in the simulation representation. There's only a matter of time before games get so good, that youll be playing a "safe" version of your game, that has all kinds of dynamic, realistic, surprising and regular outcomes that you could ask for, but you'll be watching hockey one day and think, "Why wasnt that high-stick and injury I saw in the the real game in the video game?". Sadly, fewer injuries and dangerous plays = few outcomes, and is not realistic.

I don't see how you can get rid of animations completely in any game. Even Backbreaker limited its physics implementation to collisions. Players still have to run, throw, attempt to catch, swat, etc. You need animations for all that stuff.

[jfsolo]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

I think what could help this is if there were a greater sense of self-preservation for individual players embedded in the physics, they should try to shield themselves better when they get into big pileups and in 100% certain "I am getting tackled" situations. If the players were more actively defending themselves we might see fewer unrealistically violent situations (relative to the real-life NFL, at least).

This would add so much to the game IMO. The fear of getting injured is a very big part of sports. So many plays are not made because of the very normal desire to avoid getting hurt badly. It needs to play a bigger role in all sports games. And if users don't exercise reasonable caution with players that they are controlling, then those players should be getting injured a lot more and with more severe injuries too.

[jpdavis82]

Quote: Originally Posted by l8knight1

Bring back the big hits and realism. Something was removed in 16 that totally nerfs my pleasure of making a receiver across the middle pay for his actions. Bring back the helmets being nocked off. They come off in real life for Pete's sake.

Does anyone even remember the last Madden where helmets popped off? I would say maybe 05 or 06, hasn't been in the game for years.