The Importance of Madden's Attributes

[Gman 18]

Quote: Originally Posted by DCEBB2001

In all honesty, EA needs to completely overhaul their attributes and bring them more in-line with what professional talent evaluators look for when grading prospects. To be clear, the grading of prospects is simply attempting to quantify the qualifiable traits that a player possesses. The big professional scouting services, as well as each NFL team's in-house scouting departments, all attempt to do this. Although what they look for can vary a little bit, most of them are looking for the same things at each position. I posit that EA needs to utilize such sources to mimic what the pros do in real life. This all starts with the analysis of professional scouting sheets. BLESTO and National handle most of the NFL team's scouting responsibilities for college players who become draft eligible every year. However, every NFL team has their own in-house department that grades current NFL players and free agents on a monthly or even weekly basis. Once again, although the grading system may differ from one team to another, most teams are always looking for the same things from their players. To expand on this, consider the QB position. Here are the traits that National, BLESTO, and an NFL Front Office (which supplies datat to FBGRatings.com) deem as being important for the QB position. In this example, the SAME PLAYER is used as I was able to pull his reports from each source: National: Scale from 0.0 (low) to 10.0 (high). Quick Set Up Quick Delivery/Release Arm Strength/Velocity Judgement Poise Leadership Accuracy Short/Touch Accuracy Long/Touch Awareness/Slide in Pocket Anticipation/Timing Locate 2nd Receiver Scramble/Throw on Run BLESTO: 2.40 (low) to 0.00 (high). Set Up Reading Defenses Release Arm Strength Accuracy Touch Poise Leadership Pocket Movement Scrambling Ability In-House NFL Front Office: 0.0 (low) to 5.0 (high). Arm Strength Footwork/Scrambling Ability 10-25yd Pass Accuracy Reads Release Holds (special teams) 0-10yd Pass Accuracy Field General Ball Security 25+ Pass Accuracy As you can see, all three are not identical, but more or less look for many of the same things. What differs most is the scale for each. When you analyze what these professional scouts look for and compare it to the attributes in Madden, you find some differences that are pretty wide-ranging. Did you notice something strange, however? One of the biggest things you will find is that professional evaluators do NOT give a value on the same scale as the technical skills when assigning value to the physical traits. Instead, nearly 100% of the time, they reference the testing results that are used to measure physical abilities for Strength, Explosion, Agility, Speed, and Burst. Such measurables include: Strength: 1 Rep Max in Bench Press 1 Rep Max in Squat 1 Rep Max in Power Clean Explosion: Vertical Jump Broad Jump Agility: Pro Shuttle (lateral agility) 3-cone (radial agility) Speed and Burst: 10yd Split (during 40 yard dash) 20yd Split (during 40 yard dash) 40yd Split (during 40 yard dash) These scouts NEVER assign a graded value to these 5 physical traits. They always reference the trial results. This leads me to conclude that if EA is really interested in making this game as true to life as possible, they would adopt such a system. They should overhaul all of the attributes by adding in ones that are not yet present (Poise, Leadership, Release for QBs) and get rid of ones that are not even evaluated (IBL, RBS, PBS, RBF, PBF, SPM, JKM, etc). Further, EA should do away with the 0-100 scale for the 5 physical attributes and replace them with testing numbers instead. This would allow users, like real-life talent evaluators, to evaluate the physical skills as a scout would do. It would teach users how to evaluate physical talent and make them more accustomed to player evaluation more in line with how players are really evaluated in real life. Instead of seeing a STR rating, you would see the player's Bench, Squat, and Power Clean numbers. Instead of a SPD and ACC rating, you would see his 40 time splits and could then differentiate between a player who accelerates quickly, but doesn't have great top end speed, from a player with slow acceleration, but great top end speed. If you want to know who may be good at doing a spin move about a radial center, look at the 3-cone time. If you want to know who may have a solid juke move laterally, look at the shuttle time. These are characteristics that transfer over to on field results very well and have high correlative values. I would also like to see them use a real scouting scale instead of the 0-100 scale they currently use. Find a scale that works and adopt it. If pros use these scales to evaluate and assign values to talent levels, why can't Madden? One final change I would like is the ability to turn off the OVR or make the OVR value better mimic real scouting formulas for which they are derived. Did you know that 32% of a QBs OVR rating is based on his THP? Yet, these scouting services give it the same value as every other trait! Why is that? The OVR either needs to be overhauled or done away with. In summation, EA needs to completely overhaul the ratings to make them more in line with real data and metrics. This is supposed to be a next-generation game. I can think of nothing better to make this game mimic real life more than evaluating their ratings system and making changes to it outside of making this a true physics-based game.

Someone who has experience and knowledge to back his work up. Hopefully EA sees the potential with your ratings and hires you without making you compromise your system. Gamers would be in for a treat who are serious about football


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[Sheba2011]

DCEB love your idea and wish it would be true to life like that but we both know it will never happen. EA has to keep it dumbed down so they won't turn away the casual gamers who love to see their favorite team full of 99 rated players.

I wish they would create an entirely separate game for Sim players like they had with Head Coach only even more in depth.

[kingsofthevalley]

To be perfectly honest, I just want to know if the ratings even do anything. Don't get me wrong, I really love this years game, but when I go into a game, I want to be worried about threats (especially WRs) and I just don't see the star WRs stand out during matches. An opposing team will have a high rated WR but it'll be the TE thats killing me all game! I'm like, where in the hell is that superstar wide out that I need to be focusing on who hasn't caught ONE pass damn near the whole game lmao!

[jfsolo]

Quote: Originally Posted by kingsofthevalley

To be perfectly honest, I just want to know if the ratings even do anything. Don't get me wrong, I really love this years game, but when I go into a game, I want to be worried about threats (especially WRs) and I just don't see the star WRs stand out during matches. An opposing team will have a high rated WR but it'll be the TE thats killing me all game! I'm like, where in the hell is that superstar wide out that I need to be focusing on who hasn't caught ONE pass damn near the whole game lmao!

I have some games where the star WR does kill me, and some games where, as you say, he is invisible. I don't think that it's the rating that are the number one issue anymore, IMO it's the playcalling/QB A.I. Both of those things are much improved this year, but still need to be improved with an increased focus on getting the ball to the playmakers.

Others will disagree of course, but I feel like the rating actually do matter a lot this year. I can totally tell the difference between players. Would stretched out ratings along with a more accurate rating methodology improve things even more, yes of course, but I don't feel like ratings are meaningless like they have been in many versions in the past.

[ggsimmonds]

Quote: Originally Posted by jfsolo

I have some games where the star WR does kill me, and some games where, as you say, he is invisible. I don't think that it's the rating that are the number one issue anymore, IMO it's the playcalling/QB A.I. Both of those things are much improved this year, but still need to be improved with an increased focus on getting the ball to the playmakers. Others will disagree of course, but I feel like the rating actually do matter a lot this year. I can totally tell the difference between players. Would stretched out ratings along with a more accurate rating methodology improve things even more, yes of course, but I don't feel like ratings are meaningless like they have been in many versions in the past.

The problem with the AI is that in a way the AI QB plays in an ideal way; generally speaking he throws to the open man.

Couple this along with the AI playcalling that isn't very good at utilizing its player and it leads to the stars sometimes disappearing.

Both from a playcalling and QB standpoint, the AI does not do a good job of targeting their stars.

It gets worse the deeper in CFM you go unfortunately. For example if Tomlin is fired from the Steelers they become far less of a threat depending on the replacement. This is because the Steeler playbook at least has formations/plays that help in getting Brown looks. Replace that with a generic playbook and Brown becomes a non-factor.

[Fusker]

I certainly notice when I have a star WR. I added Josh Gordon (so using the term "star" loosely here, but very good attributes, lol) to the Titans in year 2, and wow, what a difference.

I think adding a star CAN make a huge difference, but not if implemented poorly.

Quote: Originally Posted by kingsofthevalley

To be perfectly honest, I just want to know if the ratings even do anything. Don't get me wrong, I really love this years game, but when I go into a game, I want to be worried about threats (especially WRs) and I just don't see the star WRs stand out during matches. An opposing team will have a high rated WR but it'll be the TE thats killing me all game! I'm like, where in the hell is that superstar wide out that I need to be focusing on who hasn't caught ONE pass damn near the whole game lmao!

[Culture Rot]

I'm flabbergasted the question "Are they important" had to be posed. in 2015...

[Sheba2011]

Quote: Originally Posted by xlatinoheatx

I'm flabbergasted the question "Are they important" had to be posed. in 2015...

Attributes in sports games and their effect on the actual gameplay is something that is always hotly contested, not just in Madden but in all games.