Madden NFL 16 Player Ratings - Top 5 Running Backs

[DCEBB2001]

Quote: Originally Posted by khaliib

***For Straight Line Running/Testing I get the use of such testing to draw something quantifiable (esp with Madden), but biomachanically the animations in Madden are not at a level were the data won't be skewed. When you slow down a running animation in replay, you will see that there's glitching & gliding through out the straight line run over the distance you're timing. Test the same player, same route with the same ratings several times and you will see that glitching/gliding differs at different measurements at various points of the tested run distance. Some are minute during the stride, while others are very noticeable. Because there is nothing you/I as gamer's can do during such testing, within a retail version, to minimize such animation anomalies so that the data is true every time, player gameplay speeds would require a greater/wider buffer to account for this and allow animations to look somewhat smooth/fluid. What looks like a player running faster, often times, is the glitching/gliding distance being exaggerated and this is were the problem comes when trying to use "Hard Data" for a measurable such as this (ie measured times etc...) in a video game. Also, it's these animation anomalies that make it difficult for data from these type of test to have the accuracy we want them to have rating wise. I get the use of such test to gather data to pinpoint an aspect of this game and make something more definitive, I do. But the reality is that "animations" are currently not at a level to support some things to be precise in Madden at this time (maybe M16 will blow us away and change this!!!). Since this was about RB's, I noted this from how SPD/ACC is actually noticeable during gameplay as the "Ball Carrier" incorporating all the weights: - Stamina - Difficulty level - Sliders (gameplay/player speed threshold) - Tackle and Avoidance Move ratings that increase their radius and slows runners down to enter into these animations (that's why tacklers don't break down, it's the ball carrier that's slowed down to enter into the animation) - Defenders Pursuit rating (catch up speed) etc... that may be applied that regress SPD/ACC during a run, that a "10 pt" SPD/ACC difference between the "Ball Carrier" and the defender is needed after the application of the weights to see a noticeable difference as a "Ball Carrier".

I think there is a difference between a "noticeable" difference and a "measurable" one. The difference is measurable, even when the difference in ratings is only 1 point for straight line ACC/SPD. One thing that CM Hooe did was have different players of different heights and weights run straight line sprints and I came to find that players hit the same 5 yard marks in the exact same number of frames no matter their height. In this case, the amount of gliding/glitching that you cite (and we noticed) was the same. It was this testing that allowed me to reach the conclusion that the SPD rating only affected the maximum velocity and the ACC attribute only affected how quickly that maximum velocity is attained, long before EA defined it in writing.

That darn gliding/glitching is a problem though, but I think I know a way around it that I would ask to have implemented should I be brought into the fold at EA/Tiburon. Since we are able to map out how every player accelerates and decelerates using the cubic function of the split times, we can successfully map every player to their own unique path. This isn't without consequence, however. I posit that it would likely require that the SPD/ACC attributes be replaced with the 3 split times. The SPD and ACC attributes would no longer be necessary, and would only add to the confusion if you tried to map them to the 3 split times.

With using the splits, you gain more realism, but lose what Madden gamers are used to with their habit of analyzing the SPD and ACC ratings to see who is fast. One thing we could do is map the SPD and ACC ratings to the maximum velocity and time to maximum velocity and rank it, but in all honesty, that wouldn't even be necessary.

[khaliib]

@DC....
"BE CAREFUL"!!!!!

Man, making a suggestion to remove "SPD" rating from Madden is blaspheme and will get you stoned for sure.
Even thinking about such a thing is worthy of a nice fat brick being tossed your way.

You are a brave man!!!

[DCEBB2001]

Quote: Originally Posted by khaliib

@DC.... "BE CAREFUL"!!!!! Man, making a suggestion to remove "SPD" rating from Madden is blaspheme and will get you stoned for sure. Even thinking about such a thing is worthy of a nice fat brick being tossed your way. You are a brave man!!!

Well, do you want an accurate game or not?

LOL! This post just made my day!!!

If you are ever in the DFW, the first round is on me khaliib!

[BreakingBad2013]

I like the speed/acceleration idea a ton.

How can you re-rate or re-image actual position based attributes?

[DCEBB2001]

Quote: Originally Posted by BreakingBad2013

I like the speed/acceleration idea a ton. How can you re-rate or re-image actual position based attributes?

Well to me, one thing we can avoid is this huge translation issue. Use the attributes that the data uses as well as the scale that the data uses.

I know...expect more bricks...or tomatoes...

I really, really, want EA to use the 0.0-5.0 scale for these attributes. Probably won't happen, but if it did, then I wouldn't need to translate anything.

Once again, how REAL does EA want this to be? If your team in CFM has "scouts and GMs", then why aren't we using scales (either from in-house sources, like my own, or BLESTO/National) that the most reputable scouting services use? They don't use 0-100 point scales, so why should Madden.

The biggest problem would be shifting perception and sacrificing that perception for realism. The highest grades you would see would be pegging 4.5/5.0, which is about the same as having a 90 as the highest grade in Madden for any attribute. The highest one I have ever seen is Junior Seau's field savvy attribute, which correlates best to the AWR rating in the game, and that was only a 4.8 (96 in Madden). Most others don't even come close.

The other side of this is getting the game to play out better on the field with the new ratings. It would be a massive undertaking, perhaps too large for the unstoppable machine that Madden currently is.

I guess a guy can dream though.

[BreakingBad2013]

Quote: Originally Posted by DCEBB2001

Well to me, one thing we can avoid is this huge translation issue. Use the attributes that the data uses as well as the scale that the data uses. I know...expect more bricks...or tomatoes... I really, really, want EA to use the 0.0-5.0 scale for these attributes. Probably won't happen, but if it did, then I wouldn't need to translate anything. Once again, how REAL does EA want this to be? If your team in CFM has "scouts and GMs", then why aren't we using scales (either from in-house sources, like my own, or BLESTO/National) that the most reputable scouting services use? They don't use 0-100 point scales, so why should Madden. The biggest problem would be shifting perception and sacrificing that perception for realism. The highest grades you would see would be pegging 4.5/5.0, which is about the same as having a 90 as the highest grade in Madden for any attribute. The highest one I have ever seen is Junior Seau's field savvy attribute, which correlates best to the AWR rating in the game, and that was only a 4.8 (96 in Madden). Most others don't even come close. The other side of this is getting the game to play out better on the field with the new ratings. It would be a massive undertaking, perhaps too large for the unstoppable machine that Madden currently is. I guess a guy can dream though.

Would there ever be a way to have these ratings as underlying/hidden, where team management would be based off of physicals, stats, and a collection of "feel" play. For example, inviting draftees to visit or going to their pro day where you could have a hands on feel for that player, his physical attributes, college stats, and base your judgment off of that?


This would essentially become the most earth shattering thing EA could do to re-imagine madden. Also, it would add tons of immersion and playability to the video game, would have a tremendous impact on free agency and the draft, also allows users to be a bit more tied to the players.

[sir psycho]

Quote: Originally Posted by BreakingBad2013

Would there ever be a way to have these ratings as underlying/hidden, where team management would be based off of physicals, stats, and a collection of "feel" play. For example, inviting draftees to visit or going to their pro day where you could have a hands on feel for that player, his physical attributes, college stats, and base your judgment off of that? This would essentially become the most earth shattering thing EA could do to re-imagine madden. Also, it would add tons of immersion and playability to the video game, would have a tremendous impact on free agency and the draft, also allows users to be a bit more tied to the players.

YES! I truly believe that the ability to hide ratings would be one of the best things that could possibly happen for franchise mode. It's such a simple thing that would have a huge increase on how realistic teams/rosters are managed.

Actually having to judge position battles based off of how they perform on the field as opposed to a set of numbers would be great. You would actually have to play with your draft picks to determine whether or not they are busts, and it could take you multiple seasons to know for sure...as opposed to the current way where you can know immediately. There are so many other examples, but I've said them all before on these forums. Bottom line, hiding ratings would be amazing for franchise mode.

[briz1046]

Quote: Originally Posted by sir psycho

YES! I truly believe that the ability to hide ratings would be one of the best things that could possibly happen for franchise mode. It's such a simple thing that would have a huge increase on how realistic teams/rosters are managed. Actually having to judge position battles based off of how they perform on the field as opposed to a set of numbers would be great. You would actually have to play with your draft picks to determine whether or not they are busts, and it could take you multiple seasons to know for sure...as opposed to the current way where you can know immediately. There are so many other examples, but I've said them all before on these forums. Bottom line, hiding ratings would be amazing for franchise mode.

I can't say in truth I'd be in favour of hiding ratings completely under the hood as this strikes me as unrealistic
In reality coaches have hard data from the combine etc and reports from scouts other than themselves
A compromise that would appeal however would be to see combine data and maybe a letter grade for more intangible attributes for each player rather than the current 0-100 scale for every category