MLB 15 The Show: Rebuilding the Phillies

[37]

so im gunna be using the Phillies and would like an honest, unbiased assessment on the trade value of Cole Hamels...

[towncryer3921]

Quote: Originally Posted by jyoung

There's no need to undertake a complete rebuild when you can just start paying Philadelphia's bat boy a little extra money to "accidentally" pick up fair balls. That will guarantee an 81 - 81 record for the Phillies, at worst.

I have had this happen except the ball boy never came out and the play was called dead so the runner stayed at first.

[tessl]

Quote: Originally Posted by 37

so im gunna be using the Phillies and would like an honest, unbiased assessment on the trade value of Cole Hamels...

I don't use the Phillies but for a team which is in contention and can afford the contract I'd say he has high trade value. Worth at least a couple of high prospects. Hamels is the only big contract player the Phillies have on their books who is performing to a level close to his salary.

IRL the Phillies won't compete until the contracts of Utley, Lee and Howard are off the books. Utley will be gone after 2015, Lee's injury probably gets the Phillies out of their club option, Howard is still around for a couple years unless they can trade him and pick up some/most of his salary. If I was using the Phillies the one high salary guy I'd want to keep would be Hamels.

A useful addition to trade logic although it may be difficult for the developers to program would be the ability to trade a player and pick up part of his salary.

[geisterhome]

Quote: Originally Posted by tessl

I don't use the Phillies but for a team which is in contention and can afford the contract I'd say he has high trade value. Worth at least a couple of high prospects. Hamels is the only big contract player the Phillies have on their books who is performing to a level close to his salary. IRL the Phillies won't compete until the contracts of Utley, Lee and Howard are off the books. Utley will be gone after 2015, Lee's injury probably gets the Phillies out of their club option, Howard is still around for a couple years unless they can trade him and pick up some/most of his salary. If I was using the Phillies the one high salary guy I'd want to keep would be Hamels. A useful addition to trade logic although it may be difficult for the developers to program would be the ability to trade a player and pick up part of his salary.

I would keep Hamels, it's hard to find a guy like him in free agency and get him to sign for less money.

Depending on how you go about injuries I'd trade Lee, Ruiz and Papelbon they should still have some decent value. Maybe try to land a catching prospect?
Howards contract is too bad for him to have any value so he'll have to stay.
Utley you gotta decide. I'd keep him, his contract is running out at the end of the year.
Maybe you could sign an international FA? Jose Fernandez could be a replacement at 2nd Base.

With Ruiz, Lee, Utely and Papelbon(and about 60mio $!) off the books and the Phillies being a big market team anyways you should have some very decent room for a few big time FA signings.
1 Ace Pitchers (of the Category Price/Zimmermann/Cueto) another 2 like Gallardo, Samadzija, Fister, Latos could be possible. There you invested those 60 mio that became availble. With Hamels already on your team you'll likely have one the best rotations in baseball.
Now you should still have a good amount of budget space left. That I'd invest into 2 good relievers (Giles could be your closer going forward).
As well as 1 player like Upton, Heyward, Wieter, Desmond, Caspedes or at whatever position you need somebody.

The thing is you have some serviceable to decent young positional players already on the Phillies roster: Asche, Revere, Crawford and Franco all have the potential to be everyday players. Ruf Hernandez, Galvis or Brown should also be able to fill in nicely for now.

I think with that kind of approach you have an outside chance to contend already the 2nd season, what you are really aiming for should however be year 3, that year you'll get Howards huge contract off the books and you can sign another one or two top FA, while those you signed last year will still have a still some good years left. And some of the young players have gained experience.

All in all due to the Phillies being a big market team a rebuild isn't really all that difficult

Rotation
Price
Hamels
Latos
Gallardo
Nola

Lineup
Revere CF
Fernandez 2B
Heward (or any FA) RF
Howard 1B
Asche LF
Franco 3B
Crawford SS
Catcher (acquired via Trade for e.g. Lee, Ruiz, Papelbon)
Pitcher

Closer
Giles

[37]

Quote: Originally Posted by tessl

I don't use the Phillies but for a team which is in contention and can afford the contract I'd say he has high trade value. Worth at least a couple of high prospects. Hamels is the only big contract player the Phillies have on their books who is performing to a level close to his salary. IRL the Phillies won't compete until the contracts of Utley, Lee and Howard are off the books. Utley will be gone after 2015, Lee's injury probably gets the Phillies out of their club option, Howard is still around for a couple years unless they can trade him and pick up some/most of his salary. If I was using the Phillies the one high salary guy I'd want to keep would be Hamels. A useful addition to trade logic although it may be difficult for the developers to program would be the ability to trade a player and pick up part of his salary.

the bolded part is exactly the reason why he'd fetch the most in a trade.....but trade options would be really limited due to his salary so its a double-edged sword really.....and the other part is how you view him....as a real good #2 or a legit ace.....which in turn makes the definition *top prospects* kinda foggy......Lee's injury history and high salary doesn't help in shipping him away but he has to go.....then there's Papelbon and his salary...I'd prefer Giles to be my closer for the forseeable future.....Utley is the easiest to move....can think of a few destinations but not the possible return....Howard and Ruiz would go by the deadline cause they need to accumulate some kind of serious value.....so yeah, it'll be a chore

[37]

Quote: Originally Posted by geisterhome

I would keep Hamels, it's hard to find a guy like him in free agency and get him to sign for less money. Depending on how you go about injuries I'd trade Lee, Ruiz and Papelbon they should still have some decent value. Maybe try to land a catching prospect? Howards contract is too bad for him to have any value so he'll have to stay. Utley you gotta decide. I'd keep him, his contract is running out at the end of the year. Maybe you could sign an international FA? Jose Fernandez could be a replacement at 2nd Base. With Ruiz, Lee, Utely and Papelbon(and about 60mio $!) off the books and the Phillies being a big market team anyways you should have some very decent room for a few big time FA signings. 1 Ace Pitchers (of the Category Price/Zimmermann/Cueto) another 2 more like Gallardo, Samadzija, Fister,Latos could be possible. There you invested those 60mio that become availble. With Hamels already on your team you'll likely have the best rotation in baseball. Now you should still have a good amount of budget space left. That I'd invest into 2 good relievers (Giles could be your closer going forward). As well as 1 player like Upton, Heyward, Wieter, Desmond, Caspedes or at whatever position you need somebody. The thing is you have some serviceable to decent young positional players already on the Phillies roster: Asche, Revere, Crawford and Franco all have the potential to be everyday players. Ruf Hernandez, Galvis or Brown should also be able to fill in nicely for now. I think with that kind of approach you have an outside chance to contend already the 2nd season, what you are really aiming for should however be year 3, that year you'll get Howards huge contract off the books and you can sign another one or two top FA, while those you signed last year will still have a still some good years left. All in all due to the Phillies being a big market team a rebuild isn't really all that difficult

I plan to start my franchise as if everyone was healthy....in regards to the bolded part, if salary didn't play a part, I'd agree with you...i was told of a workaround about the salary issue..not sure if i wanna go that route though.****iz and Howard wont get back anything if they're traded day 1.....im not letting Utley walk for nothing so it'd probably be wise to let him go and see what Cesar Hernandez (or anyone else for that matter) can do.....don't think im gunna go the international FA route unless the Phillies sign them IRL.....probably go with stopgaps and hope for the best.....interesting blueprint you laid out though

[RogueHominid]

I've done the permutations that the game will allow in my franchise, and it boils down to this: you can get one very high level prospect, perhaps on C level prospect, and then you have to eat one massive salary from a vet the trading team doesn't value.

If you're playing with force trades on, that's another deal, but if you have budgets on and are not forcing trades, you get 1 and 1/2 usable players for your farm. To me, that's not enough return to justify trading Hamels. He'll be good for 3 more years in-game, and you really don't have as many holes to fill as you might think.

If you take a SP #1 in the draft and get 2 SP in FA, grab a RP in rounds #3-5 plus 1 in FA, and then use your #2 pick on a position player and spend on 1 position player in FA, you're all of the sudden in good shape to contend now and win later.

You can then use one trade--Papelbon--to either get a really good prospect or two pretty good ones at whichever position is least well stocked on your farm.

So I wouldn't go HAM with the trades personally, and I would keep Hamels.

You will likely find Asche, Herrera, and Revere worth keeping in the OF, and Franco, Galvis, and Hernandez worth keeping in the IF. That's my experience, having played a lot with the team.

[37]

Quote: Originally Posted by Trojan Man

I've done the permutations that the game will allow in my franchise, and it boils down to this: you can get one very high level prospect, perhaps on C level prospect, and then you have to eat one massive salary from a vet the trading team doesn't value. If you're playing with force trades on, that's another deal, but if you have budgets on and are not forcing trades, you get 1 and 1/2 usable players for your farm. To me, that's not enough return to justify trading Hamels. He'll be good for 3 more years in-game, and you really don't have as many holes to fill as you might think. If you take a SP #1 in the draft and get 2 SP in FA, grab a RP in rounds #3-5 plus 1 in FA, and then use your #2 pick on a position player and spend on 1 position player in FA, you're all of the sudden in good shape to contend now and win later. You can then use one trade--Papelbon--to either get a really good prospect or two pretty good ones at whichever position is least well stocked on your farm. So I wouldn't go HAM with the trades personally, and I would keep Hamels. You will likely find Asche, Herrera, and Revere worth keeping in the OF, and Franco, Galvis, and Hernandez worth keeping in the IF. That's my experience, having played a lot with the team.

a C-level prospect is not considered *very high level*...but yeah that consensus from everyone so far is to get anything of value, I'd have to eat salary (which makes sense)...I will not be forcing trades or ignoring budgets...if im forced to stay with Hamels, so be it and the same if I h to accept 50 cents on the dollar for him.....I do agree 1.5 prospects is not enough of a return for him....I'd take one pretty good prospect for Papelbon and run haha.....Asche and Herrera will be given opportunities to stick....im meh on Revere....Franco is definitely staying....Hernandez too...meh on Galvis