NBA 2K15 Gameplay Video - Miami Heat vs. New York Knicks (IpodKingCarter)

[The 24th Letter]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rockie_Fresh88

Very good points from both sides. I don't think nobody it's saying physics need to 100% we're asking for steady improvements to footplanting , ball physics , animations w/ less control. At some point you have to ask does 2k start improving these areas to make the game feel as next gen as it looks ?

It has steady improved though...

It's funny, Live 10 & NBA 2K11, games everyone loved, were HEAVY on 2 man animations...like literal stop/start animations at the rim.....because hey, they're reliable...as the company's have been striving to get away from that, there's been some bumps...but it's steady improved overall....especially bang bang plays at the rim...

[Rockie_Fresh88]

Quote: Originally Posted by The 24th Letter

It has steady improved though... It's funny, Live 10 & NBA 2K11, games everyone loved, were HEAVY on 2 man animations...like literal stop/start animations at the rim.....because hey, they're reliable...as the company's have been striving to get away from that, there's been some bumps...but it's steady improved overall....especially bang bang plays at the rim...

Quote: Originally Posted by Boilerbuzz

I don't think you're giving the improvements over the last few years their due man. But that's understandable. It's hard to notice a person is losing weight if you see them everyday and it's 2 pounds a month. Next thing you know, they've lost 40 pounds in almost 2 years. I think that's the case here. Go play 2K10 and compare it to 2K14. You'll see what I mean.

improvements have been made. Sometimes there are still animations where I say why didn't the game let me jump? Or I'll say I was going to give the dunk to avoid fouling in close games. Sometimes I'll try to draw a charge and my guy basically gets sucked into a contest animation.

It's those instances ( and a few more) where I would like to have more control . It flows and looks really good but sometimes it's not what I want

[The 24th Letter]

Quote: Originally Posted by da ThRONe

I don't think anybody is saying it's all physics and there's no need for balance. It's just that the balance is off for a lot of us and it should be geared more towards physics than it currently is.

We definitely all have different views on what the balance should be. As of right now, I haven't played a NBA game lacking in animations that have me a good experience.

[kolanji]

Like DaCzar said behind it all are very complex and intensive programming and a lot of testing....things are not as simple as it seems when u get to the atom of it all..


Everybody is not gonna all have their way on how they think things should play out and the order of how things should be addressed....when u fix one thing at times another hiccup shows its ugly head and i get that


To be honest the AI acting like zombies running an offense doesn't affect me that much, only in instances where they over react and move like chicken with no heads.....


I hope quick plays make a comeback, it helped when plays were broken to run a quick ISO to try to get a decent shot up... fingers are crossed for defensive pressure and help defense coaching slider to make a return....because in one of those off screen video Melo left Deng on the perimeter open for no good reason for a 3....


and that over helping defense.....nough said

[Sundown]

Quote: Originally Posted by da ThRONe

I don't think anybody is saying it's all physics and there's no need for balance. It's just that the balance is off for a lot of us and it should be geared more towards physics than it currently is.

"Physics" is a completely meaningless term because the algorithmic solutions to handling human body dynamics complete with cognitive human-like AI that simulates neural motor functions simply has not been developed yet, and what is available is not necessarily appropriate for or available to 2K.

"Physics" is just code word for a pie-in-the-sky mythical game that has never been made and the last time a developer tried to follow this vague and meaningless demand without considering the workability of the technology, it destroyed a franchise for 4 years and has yet to recover.

2 man animations work. Yes, they have limitations which need to be addressed. Yes they need to be shorter and more contextual. Yes they need to blend and branch better to retain control, logic, and believability. And yes, they need to mesh more with dynamic input through inverse kinematics and collision physics. And finally, yes, they need to account for foot planting and momentum. 2K has been making slow but steady strides in almost all of these areas. It definitely remains for 2K to work in explosiveness without causing loss in realism and the feel of weight.

But to complain about 2-man animations on principle and vaguely demand "physics" like that will magically solve one of the most difficult problems in computer science is like complaining about manned flight to Mars because it's not interstellar travel. It's like complaining about nuclear power because it's not cold fusion.

Now if you all really just want a "responsive" game that doesn't actually look like basketball, there are options. They go back as far as NBA Live 10. Maybe you can find a copy of Elite. Or you can stick with the other franchise with all it's animation hiccups that actually reveal physics and momentum problems. But I'm of the opinion that the less like basketball a game looks, the less like basketball it most likely plays.

Anyway, I was mulling over the issue earlier today while working on a project -- a huge part of modeling realism, explosiveness, momentum, and foot planting is the tricky part of balance and weight distribution. For instance, what foot I plant next is heavily influenced by what foot my weight is on (for starters). I wonder if this data can be obtained in a motion capture session through specialized shoes that measure foot pressure. Perhaps that data can help inform animation systems in selecting appropriate animations to branch, how to handle momentum in a clip, and how to foot plant logically.

[Mr.Smif]

Quote: Originally Posted by WTF

This is my sentiment and issue with 2k. It's too over reliant on animation and 2 person sequences. I'm hopeful that it's better than last years NG in that regard. I'll pick it up and give it a shot, or at least the demo. I just want responsive controls, and my input on the controls to matter. I don't want a ton of contextual animations because the game wants what I'm doing to look pretty. I want what is happening on the screen to be a direct representation of what I'm doing on the controller.

You cant have both realistic looking animations and total control over your players. 2k does a great job of making the most realistic looking/moving sports game while giving us a lot of control. If you want more control and less animations NBA Live may be the game for you, with their stiff robotic animations, sounds like thats what you prefer.

[da ThRONe]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sundown

"Physics" is a completely meaningless term because the algorithmic solutions to handling human body dynamics complete with cognitive human-like AI that simulates neural motor functions simply has not been developed yet, and what is available is not necessarily appropriate for or available to 2K. "Physics" is just code word for a pie-in-the-sky mythical game that has never been made and the last time a developer tried to follow this vague and meaningless demand without considering the workability of the technology, it destroyed a franchise for 4 years and has yet to recover. 2 man animations work. Yes, they have limitations which need to be addressed. Yes they need to be shorter and more contextual. Yes they need to blend and branch better to retain control, logic, and believability. And yes, they need to mesh more with dynamic input through inverse kinematics and collision physics. And finally, yes, they need to account for foot planting and momentum. 2K has been making slow but steady strides in almost all of these areas. It definitely remains for 2K to work in explosiveness without causing loss in realism and the feel of weight. But to complain about 2-man animations on principle and vaguely demand "physics" like that will magically solve one of the most difficult problems in computer science is like complaining about manned flight to Mars because it's not interstellar travel. It's like complaining about nuclear power because it's not cold fusion. Now if you all really just want a "responsive" game that doesn't actually look like basketball, there are options. They go back as far as NBA Live 10. Maybe you can find a copy of Elite. Or you can stick with the other franchise with all it's animation hiccups that actually reveal physics and momentum problems. But I'm of the opinion that the less like basketball a game looks, the less like basketball it most likely plays. Anyway, I was mulling over the issue earlier today while working on a project -- a huge part of modeling realism, explosiveness, momentum, and foot planting is the tricky part of balance and weight distribution. For instance, what foot I plant next is heavily influenced by what foot my weight is on (for starters). I wonder if this data can be obtained in a motion capture session through specialized shoes that measure foot pressure. Perhaps that data can help inform animation systems in selecting appropriate animations to branch, how to handle momentum in a clip, and how to foot plant logically.

I probably will.


If you like 2K's direction have all the fun in the world. However no need for the long winded rant because the word I used to describe what I prefer in a videogame is a vast over simplification.

[Eman5805]

Two man animations, real time physics, biggest gripe I've always had is when the game locks me in something. Like when I'm still in the shooting animation and the shot misses long or those annoying bumping animations. Being able to do what I'm trying to do and not feel like I'm fighting clunky controls or animations is the goal.

Whatever way gets us to that moment is fine by me.