NBA 2K15 Gameplay Video - Miami Heat vs. New York Knicks (IpodKingCarter)

[Pared]

Quote: Originally Posted by Boilerbuzz

yeah, but I HATED the pass at 0:38. That belongs on the street courts/Park. Not the NBA game. But maybe I'm just a crusty, old curmudgeon.

No, it's actually good that it is in there. Problem is it should be playing out on a situation where there is a fastbreak.

Or - if the game is tracking momentum somehow (by number of steps or how long the player is in "run" animation) it should be allowed to trigger. From that video, it played after one step, a big no-no.

[eko718]

Quote: Originally Posted by Da_Czar

Thanks for your comments. Fist let me say yes the AI will not look fantastic on every possession. Just an FYI the AI was evaluating about 3 different options that all could have separate branches within the triangle. While waiting there It decided to bypass them and you can see Melo then come off a back-screen for the post up. Then he decided to attempt a score instead of going to Melo. For movement through the lane I didn't like it last year when bigs were sprinting to go short distances It looked unnatural especially with all the bumping etc. So we made sure to have the bigs use more controlled movements. I will be eagerly watching for feedback from those who play in depth to see if that turns out to be a benefit or if we should speed them up. So the AI wasn't stuck he was just evaluating options. Maybe we need to speed that up.. We will see. I know it looks familiar to last year when he wasn't really processing anything The difference is last year he really only had one option and was waiting for it or stuck. This year it's a bit different. Time and the feedback of fine gents on here will let us know how far away we are. I believe we will be able to talk about some of the improvements here soon.

After watching that vid again, it does seem like actions should be sped up significantly. Players need to go around picks and execute movements with a sense of urgency. The computer just jogs around in this vid... none of these actions seem to actually work and get them open, which results in a stagnated iso affair.

Also, @32 seconds is an example of this foot-in-mud movement of 2K. In real life, Wade would have likely gotten to the paint off of that high pick and roll. Instead, he moves so slowly there that the defense recovers before he even passes the 3pt line. The lack of first step acceleration in this game is a major point that needs to be corrected.

[turty11]

Quote: Originally Posted by kolanji

Very much so true...but how often IRL NBA do you see a 3 man animation? The most times you see it is in zones(that very few teams used) and in the paint a few times..... Its more than likely a two man game... especially on the perimeter and defending a dribbler I know most of us hates canimation like we call it around here and we want as much removed...but keep in mind NBA elite 11 was a testament to too much of one thing is good for nothing

i dont get where all this elite 11 comparison is coming from..that game never even came out right?

aside from the ISO, 99% of the NBA involves more than 2 players. whether they be directly involved (PnR) or if its some sort of cut action going on with guys coming off screens, setting down screens and so on. in 2k, its "run this play" while the ball handler and the guy getting the pass kind of do what the play wants, everyone else is just standing around. its not NBA ball. from these videos 2k is nothing more than a pickup game at the Y where you got the ball hogs on your team

of course, if its like 2k14 its "fixable" but, we shouldnt have to spend HOURS messing around with playbooks/rosters/tendencies to get the CPU to play even an ounce like actual NBA players

2k represents #ArcadeNation right now.

[da ThRONe]

Quote: Originally Posted by WTF

This is my sentiment and issue with 2k. It's too over reliant on animation and 2 person sequences. I'm hopeful that it's better than last years NG in that regard. I'll pick it up and give it a shot, or at least the demo. I just want responsive controls, and my input on the controls to matter. I don't want a ton of contextual animations because the game wants what I'm doing to look pretty. I want what is happening on the screen to be a direct representation of what I'm doing on the controller.

Couldn't agree more.


Some people complain about uniform fit(even though it varies from player to player) or the way players look while running which I do notice as well, but it's a video game I expect those things for the time begin. What I need from a visual standpoint is to be able to look at a digital player from the basic camera angle and be able to quickly identify the specific player. As long as I can do that it's pretty much all I ask from a game graphically. It appears that 2K has taken steps forward there with better player models.


The other aspect of gaming that matters to me is to try and get the best representation of basketball I can get. And it's been hard for me to do that with 2K because there are so many things like the sliding, warping, and forced animations. As some have stated it appears that it has been cut down some. There's a play during the brief vid where Calderon bounces a lazy pass to Anthony that's tipped by Chalmers that I thought look very realistic. However I still see poor spacing, low percentage passes completed with high accuracy, player sucked into animations, out of position players getting back into position without proper foot planting, etc. All those things make it difficult to feel like the results that happen on court are A) something you would really see in the NBA if you turned your tv on, and B) like I'm the one who's making those things happen.


I understand that they want the casual fan to pop in/download the game and play right away successfully. I just feel it's at the expense of what I want in the game. The only games I buy are sports titles(FYI I Gamefly all my other non-sports games) because those are the games that have the most replay value. So I don't mind tweaking rosters for weeks and/or getting my stick-skills on point for weeks before really digging into the game. If that meant that once I found a good sim core I could have that experience from the time I was successful tweaking the game until the new game was released.

[Semipro91]

Quote: Originally Posted by luda06

This footage looks terrible. The second Knicks possession featured a triangle play with Amare in the high post, and I'm assuming he's reading the defense to determine if Miami sends someone to cheat from the weak side of the floor. Either that, or he's waiting for Calderon to take his sweet time around a screen set by Anthony. These reads should be much quicker, and put more pressure on the defense, to force an extra defender over, and have some true ball movement with a purpose. Speaking of ball movement, I absolutely hate when players get stuck on an island (ball handler picks up his dribble, and no teammates come over to receive an easier pass), yet I see evidence of that with Chalmers' failed drive attempt. So, I can only imagine there will be the usual stolen pass that stems from such scenarios. The A.I. still appears to have no general purpose besides running sets that involve their star players. It's annoying to see players still jogging/walking around screens, and their defender screened by their own teammates. It's also unacceptable to feature teams casually initiating their sets considering the fact they have 24 seconds to score. The slow developing offense will render certain plays unusable in competitive settings. Also, how come the A.I. is unable to appear competent in isolation? Amare and Wade should have passed (or immediately shot) the ball, resetting the offense into a simpler play instead of attempting to cheese to the hoop or become idle for 2-3 seconds. Maybe the A.I. shouldn't run plays designed to draw extra defenders until it's actually warranted? Like, when a player actually gets hot from the field, or if a player gets extremely close to a spot they're comfortable in scoring from? Overall, the offensive A.I. lacks fluidity; the execution just isn't there. Why can't the A.I. calculate basic reads a human controlled team, or even a real NBA team would make on offense? Every read should have a branching decision to accommodate it, and it should happen within the span of 24 seconds, with desired shot attempts (relative to the defense).

Cool story bro.

[da ThRONe]

Quote: Originally Posted by eko718

After watching that vid again, it does seem like actions should be sped up significantly. Players need to go around picks and execute movements with a sense of urgency. The computer just jogs around in this vid... none of these actions seem to actually work and get them open, which results in a stagnated iso affair. Also, @32 seconds is an example of this foot-in-mud movement of 2K. In real life, Wade would have likely gotten to the paint off of that high pick and roll. Instead, he moves so slowly there that the defense recovers before he even passes the 3pt line. The lack of first step acceleration in this game is a major point that needs to be corrected.

While all of this is spot on. I think the importance of solid physics can't be ignored when taking about offensives plays. A lot of plays work because it forces a defender to commit. When you are playing a game with bad physics the digital players covers way too much ground and aren't forced to commit. This often times kills any ability to have success running a lot of the plays.


There's a play in the Thunder vs Cavs gameplay vid where Love pump fakes Collison and drives to the basket and Collison is completely out of position yet warps back into place to cut Love off and forces him to take a bad shot. Don't remember if the shot went in and it doesn't matter. That contest should have came from the help defender or not at all as Collison was out of the position to contest. It's these things that make the offense stagnant as well.

[turty11]

Quote: Originally Posted by da ThRONe

There's a play in the Thunder vs Cavs gameplay vid where Love pump fakes Collison and drives to the basket and Collison is completely out of position yet warps back into place to cut Love off and forces him to take a bad shot. Don't remember if the shot went in and it doesn't matter. That contest should have came from the help defender or not at all as Collison had committed to the shot fake and was out of the position to contest. It's these things that make the offense stagnant as well.

PREACH BROTHA

#2Kanned summed up right there.

[kolanji]

most

Quote: Originally Posted by turty11

i dont get where all this elite 11 comparison is coming from..that game never even came out right? aside from the ISO, 99% of the NBA involves more than 2 players. whether they be directly involved (PnR) or if its some sort of cut action going on with guys coming off screens, setting down screens and so on. in 2k, its "run this play" while the ball handler and the guy getting the pass kind of do what the play wants, everyone else is just standing around. its not NBA ball. from these videos 2k is nothing more than a pickup game at the Y where you got the ball hogs on your team of course, if its like 2k14 its "fixable" but, we shouldnt have to spend HOURS messing around with playbooks/rosters/tendencies to get the CPU to play even an ounce like actual NBA players 2k represents #ArcadeNation right now.

Ok I think your misconstruing what am trying to get at let a clarify a bit.....

The comparison to elite is about breaking away from 2 men animations like it did...sure it sounds great theoretically but it never played out well hence like u said it was never released...but i played it


Most to almost All games have this so called canimation because they still need animations to play out accordingly....this explains why NBA 2k controls at times feels delayed...good example is passing which is a two man animation the passer and catcher needs to line up and at times its has a pause to line up properly then it plays out....the other game does this faster but at the cost of smoothness with out of context animations that looks interrupted at the wrong moment...some animations just aren't made to be broken out of until a certain point for it to look and feel real




Now am not saying 99% of the NBA involved with more than 2 players......but we are not talking bout individual movements we are talking about interaction/animations...and its interactions are mostly with two ppl....


Trying calling a screen on this game and when its set try running into or interacting with the screener.....it wont happen there is no animation for it but u know who will cause an animation with the screener a defender which is a 2 man animation ...so when u call a screen it might look like in this game 3 ppl are involved but in actuality it is only 2 ppl animations that will play out


Pick any animation that u see with interaction from 2k and it will still be a two man animation blocking, charging, stealing, postering, passing posting.....etc


Is that a bad thing?????? nope and this is why 2k is so beautiful in motion, but at times we noticed that animations are overwhelming and we want more control but it is always a balance of the two to keep that 2k formula of beauty and realistic vs responsiveness and control that makes this game hard to topple.....


And am sure u are aware of all this but this is what i am referring to when i am talking about two man animations....


Are there 3 men animations that could make this game even better.....i would love that...like collision from primary defender in the front and reaching collision simultaneously from a help defender from behind.....or PnR collision animation between dribbler screener and defender as the dribbler scrapes off the screener as he passes by and bumping off the defender




And to your last point about the play books and tinkering with it for hours ...am not saying anything about that.....all i want is for the CPU to stop doing the zombie plays with lots of standing around and moving with out effort...i don't play CPU modes am strictly vs humans.


But i know none better than Da_Czar to iron these things out cause he is best suited for it...so now it is only a matter of time before things get better with the new additions at VC