Madden NFL 15: Online Impressions

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

I don't think they program it that way. I think the issue is the legacy code is still there. They are just adding stuff on top of it. I don't think they can rip all of the legacy code out or they will radically break the game, so they just add on top of it and do what they can with it. I think the code is old as dirt probably.

So as someone that's actually been to Tiburon and been shown things prior to them trying to add/code them into the game, would it be fair to say that that you believe Madden will always essentially be legacy Madden at its' core, unless they were to build a new game from scratch?

I ask because after all these years and tidbits of info about the development of the game, under various teams, that's the conclusion I'm drawing. I don't begrudge anything Rex, Clint, Ian or anyone else tries to do to improve and/or change the core game for all modes, just trying to face some facts. As someone that enjoys the competition of a human opponent, online is essentially the only way I play sports games, be it H2H or multi-player career modes, so any optimism I harbor about Madden playing like an entirely different game, has been squashed fairly quickly with exposure to online modes each year.

[TTD71]

The fact is that online H2H has devolved into about 500,000 wannabe Chip Kellys running a constant barrage of no-huddle same play offenses, 2-pt conversions for the hell of it and a bevy of onside kicks and strange defensive decisions.

Too many people still think the problem is "beating" these guys...its not, the "strategy" and gameplay style are depressingly familiar and all too easy to beat unless you are up against a very skilled user who has the timing and tricks down cold...the REAL problem is that online H2H resembles NFL football about as much as Arena Football does.

The other problem is that EA forces you to have to play it out against these guys and give them 45-60 minutes of your time to be forced into playing a game and playstyle that has no appeal to a lot of veteran players. I simply gave up on DNF% and just refuse to play these clowns unless I feel like teaching one of them a lesson...but I should not be forced to play their style with no recourse...SEPARATE SERVERS for freestyle and simulation would be ideal...and on the Sim server just record wins and losses and quits and abandon any semblance of a rating or ranking system...let the animals in the jungle scrap for the meaningless and give people who want a FOOTBALL experience a chance to avoid the rest of the foolishness...

Fair Play Rules would help, so too would more realistic stamina/fatigue effects and penalties for things like intentionally slamming your free roving FS into WRs to prevent routes from running correctly (actually palyed one guy whose "defense" consisted of taking the FS and attempting to play bumper cars with the TE and Slot WR the whole game and not once was called for PI)...

The game still has a fundamental problem - it allows stupidity to succeed and it has PROVEN that is unnecessary already....just look at the run game in M15 versus passing defenses (Dime / Dollar / Quarter) - if you are playing someone who believes these are the "go to" defenses to stop the run, audible to a HB dive or slam and you will average a nice 6-8 ypc and force them to either be gashed down the field or stop calling ignorant defenses like that against a 1WR, 2TE, 2RB sets...

[Smoke6]

Man scree this gm, people figure out flaws quickly and talk smack while they're at it which is annoying knowing they're glitching at the same time. Had an opponent throw hail marys successfully til he took a big lead then he ran drags and angle routs thrkwing to harvin and his TE going 10 for 10 in one quarter. My defender never reacted at all to the player or the ball until it was caught and on top of that the pass were thrown before the players would even look for it to come with my defender standing right there only to have the ball appesr in the wr hands whike he runs into me to cstch it.

I think this will be the first time in yrs I have given up on madden this early, online play was what I liked but now nothing but no life losers continue to ruin and plagued what I thought was a great foundation of things to come.

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

So as someone that's actually been to Tiburon and been shown things prior to them trying to add/code them into the game, would it be fair to say that that you believe Madden will always essentially be legacy Madden at its' core, unless they were to build a new game from scratch? I ask because after all these years and tidbits of info about the development of the game, under various teams, that's the conclusion I'm drawing. I don't begrudge anything Rex, Clint, Ian or anyone else tries to do to improve and/or change the core game for all modes, just trying to face some facts. As someone that enjoys the competition of a human opponent, online is essentially the only way I play sports games, be it H2H or multi-player career modes, so any optimism I harbor about Madden playing like an entirely different game, has been squashed fairly quickly with exposure to online modes each year.

In short, YES . Unless they just completely scrap everything and start over legacy will always rear its head in this game and I think the proof is in the game itself. You look at this game all these years and no matter what new "great thing" they add, you still get the legacy feel to the game. I played a game online last night and I was in a party with tombsong and at a point I told him, this is probably my last online game LOL. It's just too much mess man. I was actually winning the damn game 19-7 late 3rd but this guy was no huddling and I couldn't make any adjustments. I just kept getting INT's in the redzone but I knew that would not last. So he got a TD eventually to cut it to 19-14. I lined up normal kick return. I see him come out in onside kick. Guess what? I can't f'ing audible so you know what happened.

Anyways I got an INT and scored to go up 26-14. We are in the 4th now. He scores a FG 26-17. I'm cruising. He gets a FG. So now it is 26-20. You know how this crap is going to end. I call onside kick return. He lines up in normal kick coverage. I cannot audible. He kicks the ball slightly down the middle of the field and guess what. NOBODY on my team bothered to go after the ball. HE gets it. Scrambles every play with Cutler because the contain doesn't really contain and your spy is slow even though CJ Mosley has faster speed and accel than Cutler, Cutler always beat him to the corner and turned it up the field. I lose 28-26.

It's the same mess. I felt like I was back on PS2 playing Madden online.

[GiantBlue76]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

In short, YES . Unless they just completely scrap everything and start over legacy will always rear its head in this game and I think the proof is in the game itself. You look at this game all these years and no matter what new "great thing" they add, you still get the legacy feel to the game. I played a game online last night and I was in a party with tombsong and at a point I told him, this is probably my last online game LOL. It's just too much mess man. I was actually winning the damn game 19-7 late 3rd but this guy was no huddling and I couldn't make any adjustments. I just kept getting INT's in the redzone but I knew that would not last. So he got a TD eventually to cut it to 19-14. I lined up normal kick return. I see him come out in onside kick. Guess what? I can't f'ing audible so you know what happened. Anyways I got an INT and scored to go up 26-14. We are in the 4th now. He scores a FG 26-17. I'm cruising. He gets a FG. So now it is 26-20. You know how this crap is going to end. I call onside kick return. He lines up in normal kick coverage. I cannot audible. He kicks the ball slightly down the middle of the field and guess what. NOBODY on my team bothered to go after the ball. HE gets it. Scrambles every play with Cutler because the contain doesn't really contain and your spy is slow even though CJ Mosley has faster speed and accel than Cutler, Cutler always beat him to the corner and turned it up the field. I lose 28-26. It's the same mess. I felt like I was back on PS2 playing Madden online.

I've found one of the worst things you can do is look at the replays after plays, especially on plays where you get sacked. I see that the instant pressure bug of quarters defense is still in the game. I got sacked in an Online CFM game last night in which I came out in 3 WR set. I kept my TE in to block and had my half back in a block and check route. So basically, 7 blockers, 3 man rush. 7 step drop and I get sacked. The Guard slid out behind my tackle, Will Beatty, and got in his way and the DE ran around untouched for the instant sack. Like I said earlier, all of the bugs from last year (and the year before that, and the year before that) are all back in full force. So all of the hoopla about wanting to fix madden, take it in a sim direction, blah blah blah is all a bunch of malarky. You will never be able to build your dream house on a slanted, cracked foundation. Each year, more house gets piled onto the broken foundation making it harder and harder to fix it as the can gets kicked down the line. Next year will be the same, and so will the year after that.

[GiantBlue76]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

Out of curiosity and for discussion sake, why do you think they program stuff other than football fundamentals? Is it easier to add "shortcuts", is Madden coding so tangled they can't add real fundamentals without starting from scratch, lack of talent by the engineers, something else entirely or some combination? Madden may not be so bad as long as one doesn't expect it to be anything other than Madden and that's cool but I wonder why hasn't the game moved beyond its' legacy by now. I agree that online H2H seems to expose the core of the game and there seems to be this constant that no matter what is added to improve the football in the game, it doesn't change that core. For example, no matter what anyone's football game preference, it's a fact that Madden, NFL Fever, NFL2k/APF and BackBreaker all provide a different core experience to playing a football video game, so with all the claims of trying to make Madden more like football, less like Madden I wonder why after all this time and new consoles, its' still so Madden.

It's all of the above, lol. There are some real head scratching decisions in the game's design at times, but the implementation is even worse. Half of the stuff doesn't even work. I've got a collection of clips that show horrendous bugs in AI that have been around for years. I used to send them to certain devs who I thought would listen, but I realized it was pointless. I, however, don't buy into the fact that the game "can't" be fixed. If something was pushing them to fix it, they would magically find a way to do so. Mysteriously, NBA live got a reboot and you will see that game strive to improve massively year over year. I think there is a lot of complacency when it comes to madden development. There may be the perception that there is great passion from the leadership of the team, but I'm not completely sold on that either. This is the only football game, they know the shield sells, and they know that they want to attract every single user. They will continue to make the game they want to make, which includes successful hail mary's in a crowd of coverage, silly looking interceptions, big plays that seem scripted in key moments, etc.

It's just software at the end of the day, and with truly talented, passionate and driven programmers, could fix this game rather quickly. Instead, we continue to get lots of things that are incremental improvements that sound good at first, but don't really work. The implementation is again sloppy and incomplete in Madden 15. Take the offensive line play for example - it's actually worse in 15 than it was in 25. Not sure what they were trying to fix, but the number of plays where my tackles block no one and stare into space is startling. The lineman attempt to slide into place like an old 16 bit game and don't move realistically at all. It's a hot mess, yet this is "war in the trenches 2.0". Bugs happen, but to be this sloppy isn't acceptable to me. I expect better because I had better over a decade ago. To those who can really enjoy the game I salute them and I am glad, because that is all that matters. However, for me, I need something better than this, much better.

[LBzrule]

^^ can't wait for Destiny on 9/9

[mjm76]

How long does a online game take to play? Someone mentioned in one of their posts it takes 45 to 60 minutes. Is this correct?


I have rented Madden 15, but do not own it yet. Still trying to decide to buy or not/


Thanks for any responses.