Madden NFL 15 Connected Franchise Details, Trailer and Screenshots

[ggsimmonds]

Quote: Originally Posted by bucky60

But if it doesn't effect played games, then what good is scheme to your team?

It helps you to make roster decisions. You set a scheme to fit your style of play, and scheme helps you identify players that fit your style of play.

Quote: Originally Posted by bucky60

Scheme should somehow effect player production. Whether that's by internally adjusting ratings or by the players attributes having more of a direct effect on performance in a particular scheme. If my 65 rated RB outperforms my 85 rated RB, then what good is scheme? There should be some kind of correlation between scheme and production not just scheme and depth chart/salary.

I disagree. Why should scheme adjust player ratings? In theory it would affect production because players would fit your style of play and therefor perform better. But that is if you know what your scheme is and how to benefit from it. If you sign a bunch of cover 2 corners and they try to play man defense that is on you.

Quote: Originally Posted by bucky60

If I'm resigning my 65 rated RB to peanuts while he performs just as well in the game as my 85 rated RB, then scheme is not really working. Schemes have to effect more than just CPU AI rosters. If the 65 rated RB doesn't fit in the scheme, he should not be productive in the scheme. And yet my 65 rated D. Harris performed just as well as my 85 rated Lacy. I could dump Lacy, save a lot of salary, and use my out of scheme D. Harris.

That may not be a problem with scheme as much as it could be a problem with ratings in general. He may be rated a 65 ovr, but what is his speed? What is your team scheme and what RB type do you have set? What kind of plays do you call? If your RB type is set to power and you like to run outside zone stretch plays then the problem falls on you. And again, I am fairly certain that scheme does not affect player salary. It may cause a team to overpay someone, but a player will not take peanuts if his base overall is 85 but your scheme rates him as a 65. He only cares about scheme if it results in you overvaluing him.

[daniel77733]

I'm not going to continue arguing about schemes. I hate them and to me, schemes are the main cause for all the roster management AI problems.

If the overall ratings in the menus match in-game and do so after signing free agents, then hopefully, I'll finally be able to play the game for more than a few days. If not, I trade it in, lose a few dollars and move on.

[ggsimmonds]

Quote: Originally Posted by daniel77733

I'm not going to continue arguing about schemes. I hate them and to me, schemes are the main cause for all the roster management AI problems. If the overall ratings in the menus match in-game and do so after signing free agents, then hopefully, I'll finally be able to play the game for more than a few days. If not, I trade it in, lose a few dollars and move on.

Last comment on the matter I promise.

The AI made very poor roster decisions well before schemes were introduced.

[bucky60]

Quote: Originally Posted by ggsimmonds

It helps you to make roster decisions. You set a scheme to fit your style of play, and scheme helps you identify players that fit your style of play.

That only means something if there is a penalty in performance if players don't fit your scheme. If my 65 rated, out of scheme, RB performs just as well as my 85 rated, in scheme RB, then what good is scheme?

Quote: Originally Posted by ggsimmonds

I disagree. Why should scheme adjust player ratings? In theory it would affect production because players would fit your style of play and therefor perform better. But that is if you know what your scheme is and how to benefit from it. If you sign a bunch of cover 2 corners and they try to play man defense that is on you.

In theory it should effect production. But in practice, I found it didn't. My 65 rated RB was just as productive as my 85 rated RB.

Quote: Originally Posted by ggsimmonds

That may not be a problem with scheme as much as it could be a problem with ratings in general. He may be rated a 65 ovr, but what is his speed? What is your team scheme and what RB type do you have set? What kind of plays do you call? If your RB type is set to power and you like to run outside zone stretch plays then the problem falls on you.

My scheme is set to whatever GB's scheme is set to. D. Harris's overall goes down because he DOESN'T fit in the scheme. Yet he performs just as well as Lacy who's overall goes up because he DOES fit the scheme. I call the same plays for both RB's. Why should speed have anything to do with this and how is this my fault? It's a problem with how scheme is implemented.

Quote: Originally Posted by ggsimmonds

And again, I am fairly certain that scheme does not affect player salary. It may cause a team to overpay someone, but a player will not take peanuts if his base overall is 85 but your scheme rates him as a 65. He only cares about scheme if it results in you overvaluing him.

Scheme effects overall, overall effects salary. If A effects B and B effects C then A effects C. It's simple math.

I like the idea of scheme in the game. But it was implemented missing some significant depth to make it meaningful.

[mmorg]

Quote: Originally Posted by bucky60

I like the idea of scheme in the game. But it was implemented missing some significant depth to make it meaningful.

I think everyone can agree on this statement. The logic behind schemes is sound. The implementation is flawed.

[ggsimmonds]

Quote: Originally Posted by bucky60

That only means something if there is a penalty in performance if players don't fit your scheme. If my 65 rated, out of scheme, RB performs just as well as my 85 rated, in scheme RB, then what good is scheme? In theory it should effect production. But in practice, I found it didn't. My 65 rated RB was just as productive as my 85 rated RB.

There could be a penalty in performance depending on position and playcall. It affects some positions more and some less. RB is a position where scheme matters less and we all know the reason. If you have a fast RB he will be effective. The penalty in performance would come when you got something like a cover 2 corner and try to play man defense. This happened to me. I was in a online CFM and got stuck with the Vikings roughly two years ago. I use the Ravens. Believe me relying on Winfield in man coverage cost me. In general it affects defense more than offense.

Quote: Originally Posted by bucky60

My scheme is set to whatever GB's scheme is set to. D. Harris's overall goes down because he DOESN'T fit in the scheme. Yet he performs just as well as Lacy who's overall goes up because he DOES fit the scheme. I call the same plays for both RB's. Why should speed have anything to do with this and how is this my fault? It's a problem with how scheme is implemented.

No, it is a problem with how speed, acceleration, and agility are nearly the only things that matter for RBs. And forgive me but if you cannot even recall what scheme you used it does make me question exactly how much you payed attention. Aside from that, I already granted that for RBs it does not matter quite as much unless you call specific plays. What running plays did you call? But if you think a player should run slower, be less agile, etc simply because he is playing out of scheme then we have reached a fundamental disagreement.

Quote: Originally Posted by bucky60

Scheme effects overall, overall effects salary. If A effects B and B effects C then A effects C. It's simple math.

No it is not simple math, because there are different overalls. The scheme influenced overall is not the real overall, i.e. it is not the overall driving the engine. In this case the scheme overall is shown only for your benefit. But the under the hood mechanics that determine player salary is driven by the baseline overall that is displayed on the front end. Madden just released all the ratings, now if you start a CFM and change scheme that will result in overall changes, but the game still calculates salary based on the overall that was recently released.

Quote: Originally Posted by bucky60

I like the idea of scheme in the game. But it was implemented missing some significant depth to make it meaningful.

I actually do disagree with this statement. The problem is not with scheme but with the player ratings and their impact on gameplay such as the aforementioned speed of RBs. And while schemes were introduced partly to improve AI roster management, there are still problems in the roster management code and I think that is separate from schemes. Tied to this is the small rating scale for important attributes. Take route running for example, the range for WRs s quite small. The majority of WRs have RTR in the mid 80s. So there is not much variation to make route running WRs a viable option.

[daniel77733]

Quote: Originally Posted by ggsimmonds

Last comment on the matter I promise. The AI made very poor roster decisions well before schemes were introduced.

Agreed but schemes made the roster management AI worse. Two and a half more weeks to go. Hopefully, I can play a few seasons with my 49ers.

[ggsimmonds]

Quote: Originally Posted by daniel77733

Agreed but schemes made the roster management AI worse. Two and a half more weeks to go. Hopefully, I can play a few seasons with my 49ers.

Same here.And hey your team played my team tonight. Now usually I am not one to brag about preseason outcomes but...we stomped you guys!! j/k...kinda