EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

[bucky60]

Quote: Originally Posted by FBall Life

And if you're not wanting a simulation football game, fine. EA could make settings to accommodate you. Have ****** and simulation settings so everyone wins.

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

If Madden doesn't meet your quality standards, there are older games which attempted the same task. If those aren't good enough either, I guess you're out of luck? In which case I recommend you find something else to make you happy, given we all know the exclusivity situation. things like foot planting don't matter to me if said football game with foot planting offers my games no context. I think Madden is plenty realistic right now

So Fball talks about having options to make everybody happy and you talk about - I'm happy and don't care, too bad for you. What happened to open minded? Or open minded as long as it's something you care about and the other person agrees with you? He talks about "options", and you talk about "I'm happy, too bad". At least, that's how you are coming across.

[Jerros]

Not sure if its been already said but, the simple truth of it is Madden will never ever be the game we want it to be. I thought it was amusing when Rex Dickson kept saying they are chasing simulation. Madden will NEVER EVER be a simulaition of football for one reason. It's core audience. There are way too many people who know nothing about football's true fundamentals and football logic. Let's keep something in mind. Madden is not only played by grown men but you have teenagers, pre-teens and kids that play it. It would be stupid business practice to alienate your core audience. Those very same people are the main reason Madden will not and can not change. They want the game to be somewhat arcadey. They want to be able to spam the same money plays over and over. They want the broken A.I. and broken penalty system. This is the sad truth of it. You will NEVER EVER get the Madden game you want. EA is not in the business of losing money. And as much as I hate to say it, we the gamers who are geared more towards simulation are not the majority. 2k was ahead or their time and they were bold to make a game geared more towards real football logic. I applaud them for that but I'm telling you, the core audience for Madden who supports the game as is does NOT want a sim. There are too many variables and risk for EA to suddenly make that leap. That isn't to say they won't add little things here and there that are sim-like. But overall, the game will remain mostly arcadey. Why do you think they gave us defense but added all the arcade button prompts. The Tiger Woods kicking arch? A real sim doesn't need that crap. But, they have to have something to counter balance things whenever they do add something too close to the real thing. It's sad but that is the bottomline, Unless some company is bold enough to make a generic game that can be customized and actually gives EA some competition, the game will NEVER change. We will only see bits and pieces. And whats even worse, the bits and pieces we're getting this year are from older games. Backbreaker camera angle on Defense. The power meter button that was originally used in 2k on offense, and the overall Defense theme that was the same EXACT them in 05 when the Ravens were the SB champs. Been there, done that.

[CM Hooe]

Quote: Originally Posted by FBall Life

A decade old game was a better representation of simulation football than Madden 25.

This is subjective, i.e. "based on personal feelings, tastes, or opinions".

It's your opinion that prior games were better options, and it's fine to hold, but just because and several other very vocal posters hold that view doesn't make the universal truth.

I really don't know how else to put it.

[FaceMask]

Quote: Originally Posted by coogrfan

With respect, I believe you're seriously mistaken here. It is my understanding that back when EA and Sega were both in the football game business the NFL/NFLPA did not get paid up front: If this is correct (and DrJones was in a position to know since he actually worked for EA prior to "the Great Purge") that means that Sega wound up paying the NFL only a $1.99 per unit sold instead of $4.99. The notion that the NFL wouldn't care about this or the precedent it might set vis a vis their other business partners is fanciful at best.

I'm not familiar with DrJones, but him working for EA is a separate matter from what his involvement was--if any--in the drafting, negotiation, signing and keeping of the contract in question. If he wasn't involved in that capacity, then that would make him an outsider on the matter just like the rest of us.

Until we see the contract (and we won't), we can't assume that this per unit thing was ever a thing. Not that per unit deals are uncommon, it's just that there is a lack of proof that this was the deal in this particular matter with the NFL.

Extending onto that, there has never been a single known word from the NFL regarding having a problem with the price of NFL 2K5, so because of that this "NFL was mad about the price of 2K5" concept has to be considered conjecture. There is no proof. Without seeing the contract terms in black and white, there is no proof.

What's not conjecture is that EA had a big problem with the price of NFL 2K5 according to the Pecover documents.

So, no slight against DrJones, but I'm going to stick with what's been proven and what we can see in writing. It's the most logical option.

Quote: Originally Posted by coogrfan

Again according to VGChartz: NFL 2k3 (North America) PS2 1.06 million units + XB .38 million units = 1.44 million units ESPN NFL Football (aka NFL 2k4) PS2 .27 million units + XB .27 million total = .54 million That's a 62% drop in sales from 2002 to 2003. Under those circumstances I can certainly understand why Sega felt they needed to roll the dice. Confident or desperate?

Both. Confident in their product, desperate for market share. It's not a new or uncommon circumstance.

Quote: Originally Posted by coogrfan

Perhaps. The fact that it was an licensed NFL game for a mere $20 and it was released three weeks before Madden (July 20th vs Aug 9th) may have had little something to do with those numbers as well.

Not all 4.26 Million though. I believe they even sold over 1 Million copies past its initial sales period. That doesn't happen when a game is bad. $19.99 attracted more people, the game being a beast reeled in even more. Once enough people (including the media) declare a game hot, it goes viral. That's what happened with NFL 2K5. If the game sucked and that had become the consensus, it wouldn't have mattered what the price was.

[bucky60]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

This is subjective, i.e. "based on personal feelings, tastes, or opinions". It's your opinion that prior games were better options, and it's fine to hold, but just because and several other very vocal posters hold that view doesn't make the universal truth. I really don't know how else to put it.

I've never owned a NFL2K game, but those that do own it seem to be able to post actual videos with visual evidence of sim aspects that makes this far less subjective.

[FBall Life]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

This is subjective, i.e. "based on personal feelings, tastes, or opinions". It's your opinion that prior games were better options, and it's fine to hold, but just because and several other very vocal posters hold that view doesn't make the universal truth. I really don't know how else to put it.

This poster already articulated it better than I could.

Quote: Originally Posted by NicVirtue

When a 10/7 year old game is more fundamentally sound, authentic, and true to the sport than a game that is supposed to come out in 2014, then I think saying "it's subject to opinion" is a bit of a cop out. When it comes to football, there is a plethora of things that 1 game has, that the more recent game does not. That's not an opinion, that's a fact of the lack of football aspect from a recent NFL game, compared to a decade old game. When people can literally go back and point out all the things that 1 game has, that the other game does not, it being an "opinion" is out the door. It's as black and white as it gets. 1 game is as authentic as we ever had, and the other seems to be struggling to get there. I't been quite evident over the years. I mean you can say you like not having pass interference called 95% of the time. That doesn't mean your preference is true to the game of football. You can say you like no double team tackling. That doesn't mean your preference is true to the game of football. There is a laundry list of things not done in Madden, that have been done 10 years ago in another game. There is a laundry list of things Madden has, but hasn't done right, that the other game has done right 10 years ago. With those things, I don't see how it can be subject to opinion, when the bottom line is NFL Football, and what happens on Sunday. The problem is that people have been trained to play Madden, not football. You can enjoy it for what it is, but it dam sure isn't an authentic representation of football. If it were, people like me wouldn't need to go back and play the "other" game.

[kehlis]

Subjectiveness goes both ways though.

You can be happy with the current state of the game and that's fine but there is nothing wrong with pointing out deficiencies or asking for more either.

[CM Hooe]

Quote: Originally Posted by kehlis

Subjectiveness goes both ways though. You can be happy with the current state of the game and that's fine but there is nothing wrong with pointing out deficiencies or asking for more either.

Yes, absolutely. Constructive criticism I am absolutely okay with and I have plenty of my own to offer on the topic of Madden.

However, the continued resurrection of ghosts in this forum to the detriment of any and all otherwise-positive discussions about Madden - however few of them exist given how much vitriol there is in this community - is not productive to this discussion, in my opinion. It's very clear to me that no one at EA Tiburon is looking at those older football games for example or inspiration anymore; those games are not relevant in the modern sports gaming landscape, and I did not enter the Madden forum with the intent of discussing games not named Madden.