EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

[FaceMask]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

Perhaps you should stop looking at the situation only from an NFL perspective. You seem to be ignoring that the NCAA football and Arena Football League licenses also went exclusive, all within a week or two of it happening with the NFL. Again, it takes a ridiculous leap of logic to assume they were all coincidences. Especially when you consider 2K or Sony weren't even making college football games at the time. And neither had attempted an Arena League game. EA had. And through some miracle all these entities decided at once to make their licenses exclusive at the same time. They basically decided to raise their licensing fees to an amount [that had to be more than what they would've gotten collectively from multiple suitors] at a time when no one other than EA was showing interest in their properties. Give me a break. EA acted to keep 2K or anyone else from making a legitimate football game by locking up every major U.S. football license - period.

Yep, it's undeniable. Plus, you have to thrown in their acquisition of the ESPN license, too, and consider how integral that license was to 2K's sports games at the time. These were all clearly strategic disarming tactics to shut out a strong competitor.

[SageInfinite]

Quote: Originally Posted by FaceMask

Yep, it's undeniable. Plus, you have to thrown in their acquisition of the ESPN license, too, and consider how integral that license was to 2K's sports games at the time. These were all clearly strategic disarming tactics to shut out a strong competitor.

Yet another piece of the puzzle people forget about. Got that license and didn't jack **** with it for years.

[jerwoods]

I Would had put SportsCenter in Madden 06 for the xbox 360 also made franchise mode like ESPN NFL Page as well

[hanzsomehanz]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

Perhaps you should stop looking at the situation only from an NFL perspective. You seem to be ignoring that the NCAA football and Arena Football League licenses also went exclusive, all within a week or two of it happening with the NFL. Again, it takes a ridiculous leap of logic to assume they were all coincidences. Especially when you consider 2K or Sony weren't even making college football games at the time. And neither had attempted an Arena League game. EA had. And through some miracle all these entities decided at once to make their licenses exclusive at the same time. They basically decided to raise their licensing fees to an amount [that had to be more than what they would've gotten collectively from multiple suitors] at a time when no one other than EA was showing interest in their properties. Give me a break. EA acted to keep 2K or anyone else from making a legitimate football game by locking up every major U.S. football license - period.

Nothing you said is invalid but it also does not make the $19.99 argument anymore invalid - that price point was the impetus that set the precedence for the whirlwind of exclusive agreements that followed.

Do I believe the two, NFL and EA, were both offended by NFL 2K5's marginally low price points? Absolutely - without that notion there is not much grounds to sue the NFL or EA on regarding monopolies and price fixing the NFL video game product.

How do you know the contract stipulations of the shared license at the time? You assume it was an upfront cost - what if the NFL stipulated to also take a piece of sales, a comission incentive of sorts? Now unit prices would matter -- they had to have mattered or EA and NFL would have reached an agreement sooner when there was more competition prior to the release of ESPN 2K5 and Madden 05.

Around that time I also learn that the NFL went on a spending binge and plopped down Millions for a Visa exclusive rights agreement.

I believe they, EA and the NFL, had the same rulership motives at the time.

Some use their position on this argument like a big bang theory but give no explanation to the big bang - why did EA suddenly buy up and secure these exclusive licenses?

They saw what a smaller developer with a creative mind, like 2K, could do to infringe on their market share by selling competitively lower than the standards of the day.

EA's competitve advantage remained their capital and they used it to secure the licenses to themselves which is legal.

Yes, these actions signified that 2K was essentially neutered and kicked in the teeth when EA secured exclusive rights to the NFL and ESPN albeit they have yet to use ESPN in their subsequent Madden titles - they did it all to destroy the brand power of 2K and anyone else to follow in their shadows.

If the impetus was not price points: these deals would have been proposed and met sooner sooner if it was simply about power and control.

Sent from my SGH-I727R using Tapatalk

[BizDevConglomerate]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jerros

Simple formula for 2k to get back into making football games. Make a fully customizable game with realistic graphics. You can get around the license issue by allowing gamers to re-create the NFL through total customization. Add in full player editing such as skin tones, hairstyles and facial features along with the other stuff such as weight, height and stats and you're set. This would allow the gamer to re-create a player's likness. Facial scans wouldn't matter because football players are in the helmets most of the time anyway. But FULL customization like BackBreaker and you have a brand new NFL game without the license. Plain and simple, no more excuses. I have an extensive write up about this with a ton of features that would make this game potenitally revolutionary. We all know they have the graphics engine. Either they want to make a game or they just no longer care. But there's really no excuse in my eyes. Move on, EA has the license, time for 2k to exploit the customization loophole and give us a game.

Yoooooooooooooo, thanks for stealing my post. Looks like we were on the same page . lol. But that's a first I saw someone stall every word I wrote. That's true thievery. I love it. Thanks man. Now go to 2k twitter and flood em with #bringbackAPFWITHUS&KICKSTARTER

[BizDevConglomerate]

Quote: Originally Posted by kingdavidtaylor1989

ummm where do you have this information? Plus for comparison between Madden and 2K football, all you have to look at is the QB throwing motion. Then you will see which game is more fluid. Also you can look at Interaction. 2k Blows Madden anything out of the park. Not an opinion. See for yourself.

Hey since buddy plagiarized my earlier post, it's only right I respond to you. I got the idea not info from looking at APF and Backbreaker. Also the many other generic titles that have been released. Also the fact that EA's team builder and team slots meant the use could have a bigger role in the first of customization and team creation or edits. The cloud, man if they just use the cloud, make a shell of a game and we customize it to to depth or death or deff that generic game becomes the real deal. Eff the license. That like buying a Benz to Impress people in school and your the most popular student. Buy the optima and save money for gas. It's simple. But 2k has to be down to, or better yet Visual Concepts. Visual concepts is the problem b and Scott Paterson. I do have a game concept on paper that will kill all of these games but I'm nobody. I sent it to Leigh Steinberg and VC. All we need is a real Dev, and kickstarter or fund raza to get this going. No more game being sold every year yo. They can just update the joint through cloud.

[GiantBlue76]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

Actually, if your inquiry is into why the game is in the state that it's in I'd say this. EA has had great producers (IMO). They went out and hired ex-NFL players. They have access to all tape. They talk with coaches every year. So why is the game in the shape that it is in??? I wouldn't care if Ray Lewis was let's say the Producer of Tackling. He can sit there and tell programmers all day long about how tackling is supposed to be and what the outcomes would be, how this angle might produce that result. He's communicating with a programmer. And what he says is trying to be translating onto a computer screen. He can describe things perfectly day in and day out, but that does not mean that it's going to come up on that screen perfectly as he has described it. We can watch all the videos from E3. EA hired Clint Oldenberg. But look at the OL. They might be blocking "right", but it still doesn't look organic. Same thing from the example above, he can tell them, but that doesn't mean it's going to be perfect in relationship to how he described it.

I'll speak on this point because lb is inside my head on this one :-) Clint, Larry, Rex (and to go back, Phil, Ian, Ortiz) these guys are designers/producers. They do not write any code. Their vision, ideas and designs may be excellent, but like all software, without the programmers with the ability to IMPLEMENT the design in a timely manner with a high level of quality it means nothing. On my team at work, we have over 15 designers. They design the flow of the apps along with the entire UI/UX. They do not write ANY code and many times they will get input from programmers on whether or not something in the design is feasible. I've never been to tiburon, but we have seen enough over the years to realize that some designs for gameplay have been solid, but where they fail is in implementation. The programmers writing the code are not at all what I would call best and brightest when you compare them to other studios. Design is questionable too because they don't ever think of things that other studios do. That's a separate topic that can also be expounded upon.

I've talked to several guys who worked there and went there and spent significant time with some central gameplay programmers and you wouldn't believe the horror stories I've heard. There are a couple of reasons why we never get a complete football game. The biggest reason is ability. They simply don't know how to do it. It's taken EA ten years to work on line play, but it's still not as good. We don't have any wr/db interaction and we had it in 2k4. It was never touted as a feature either because it is assumed. We also had all penalties and flAgs on the field, still yet to be done in madden, 10 years later. Again, it's difficult for them. This yeAr they are touting receivers reaching for errant passes. Ok, well great that it's in there, but really???? It's almost insulting to me as a consumer. They stress simulation and authenticity yet there are no reach tackles, no real time injuries, penalties, proper ball physics etc. All of which I had 10 years ago. What do I have instead???? Community play calling and a tackle cone. Honestly, you can't make this stuff up and it's at the point that it's comical.

For me personally, I'm moving on and have fully accepted that football gaming will never recover. It's been permanently tarnished and that's just the way it is. If you really think there will ever be another game, you are dead wrong. There will never be another game.

The one last thing I will add is that Tiburon deserves all of the criticism and vitriol they get. They eArned it, and the spectre of 2k will continue to haunt their developers for years to come. Shawn Lee and Abe Navarro can take solace in the fact that they mAde A far superior game with a fraction of the budget, developers and time, and the tiburon guys still can't do it ten yeArs later despite a ten year head start and an exclusive license. They can make all.of the challenges they want, but in the end they were bested by a smaller studio who, quite simply, is far better than they are when it comes to football.

Sent from my KFAPWI using Tapatalk

[Ovie832]

Quote: Originally Posted by GiantBlue76

I'll speak on this point because lb is inside my head on this one :-) Clint, Larry, Rex (and to go back, Phil, Ian, Ortiz) these guys are designers/producers. They do not write any code. Their vision, ideas and designs may be excellent, but like all software, without the programmers with the ability to IMPLEMENT the design in a timely manner with a high level of quality it means nothing. On my team at work, we have over 15 designers. They design the flow of the apps along with the entire UI/UX. They do not write ANY code and many times they will get input from programmers on whether or not something in the design is feasible. I've never been to tiburon, but we have seen enough over the years to realize that some designs for gameplay have been solid, but where they fail is in implementation. The programmers writing the code are not at all what I would call best and brightest when you compare them to other studios. Design is questionable too because they don't ever think of things that other studios do. That's a separate topic that can also be expounded upon. I've talked to several guys who worked there and went there and spent significant time with some central gameplay programmers and you wouldn't believe the horror stories I've heard. There are a couple of reasons why we never get a complete football game. The biggest reason is ability. They simply don't know how to do it. It's taken EA ten years to work on line play, but it's still not as good. We don't have any wr/db interaction and we had it in 2k4. It was never touted as a feature either because it is assumed. We also had all penalties and flAgs on the field, still yet to be done in madden, 10 years later. Again, it's difficult for them. This yeAr they are touting receivers reaching for errant passes. Ok, well great that it's in there, but really???? It's almost insulting to me as a consumer. They stress simulation and authenticity yet there are no reach tackles, no real time injuries, penalties, proper ball physics etc. All of which I had 10 years ago. What do I have instead???? Community play calling and a tackle cone. Honestly, you can't make this stuff up and it's at the point that it's comical. For me personally, I'm moving on and have fully accepted that football gaming will never recover. It's been permanently tarnished and that's just the way it is. If you really think there will ever be another game, you are dead wrong. There will never be another game. The one last thing I will add is that Tiburon deserves all of the criticism and vitriol they get. They eArned it, and the spectre of 2k will continue to haunt their developers for years to come. Shawn Lee and Abe Navarro can take solace in the fact that they mAde A far superior game with a fraction of the budget, developers and time, and the tiburon guys still can't do it ten yeArs later despite a ten year head start and an exclusive license. They can make all.of the challenges they want, but in the end they were bested by a smaller studio who, quite simply, is far better than they are when it comes to football. Sent from my KFAPWI using Tapatalk

one of the saddest posts I've ever read on OS.. only because it is so true and depressing.
Madden is it.. for a long.. long time. Honestly IMO... I think there is a better chance of a day when sports video games are no longer made... than a chance of 2k returning to football gaming. It just feels so far removed from what we have today.

NFL 2k was a creative expression. It was a masterpiece for its time... Video games answer to impressionism. 2k football was the godfather.. it was citizen kane. It had its grain and its character. it was perfectly imperfect. Madden is a hollywood blockbuster that continues to release sequels just to make big $$$. Lots of explosions and stunts.. but no essence. Just an expensive shell protecting a very shallow core.

I constantly think of AJ Dembroski's twitter rants a few years ago... when he said that EA doesn't push creativity.. that it is basically all corporate numbers and bottom lines. And I honestly don't know how anyone could ever disagree with that..Madden will forever be a video game. You will never have an organic and realistic experience. It fails to capture the countless nuances and aura of the sport. Sure... it is a 'representation' of the sport.. but that's where it ends.

EA never lets you forget that you are playing a video game. They continue to pollute their game screens with EA sports logos everywhere.. on replays.. on scoreboards.. on stat screens..etc. Why have the espn license? there is literally no purpose.

2k football is dead.