Sound Off: Why Does America Hate the Heat?

[VDusen04]

Quote: Originally Posted by vtcha

The whole concept of people hating on "bought teams" is so hypocritical. Let's not forget Miami wasn't the only one trying to sign 2 max free agents during the 2010 summer. As I recall, the Knicks, Bulls and Nets were all doing the same thing- clearing cap space. Even the Mavs tried doing the same thing in an attempt to lure D-Will & Dwight. I can guarantee you that had LeBron signed elsewhere and was successful, we'd still be having this discussion, with the exception of another team replacing the Heat. So let's be real. The title of this thread is clearly implying "Why Does America Hate LeBron?"

Yeah, I think it depends what folks mean by "bought". I agree with the sentiment that every team is bought. Sometimes though, I think people use the "bought" term in reference to the Heat situation as a means of saying there wasn't a whole lot to Miami's championship team construction other than three Dream Teamers all deciding they wanted to play together somewhere, knowing many other supporting players would be willing to follow at any price because they'd like a piece of the near-certain championship action. Of course, "bought" would then be the wrong term. It seems they'd be better served to say something like "artificial" or "not earned" or "cherry picked". I don't know.

I will say, even when I was a fan of LeBron James in Cleveland, he most definitely was a hatred magnet. It kind of reminded me of how people treat Blake Griffin now. It seems the more popular someone gets, or the better they perform, the more irrational hatred they tend to attract. And if those players do anything to possibly draw rational criticism (they both flop, for example) then things get really critical.

That said, I think it's important to make note that there's a huge divide between people who "hate" LeBron simply because he's LeBron, and those who truly felt Miami's Dream Team construction was not super kosher, nor in the best interest of competition. Like I said, I was a Pistons fan who liked my rival's star prior to summer 2010. But watching James not only attempt to upgrade his supporting cast, but more less making a mockery of an entire conference by taking three Eastern Conference all-star starters and placing them on one team, that was way more than I ever thought would be necessary, to the point of it feeling stacked and unsavory.

[DIESEL]

Quote: Originally Posted by King_B_Mack

I seem to recall quite a few people stating that if their team couldn't sign LeBron, they'd love to see him stay in Cleveland and bring that city a championship. I recall people hoping Bosh or Amar'e would go to Cleveland with him to help him. So yeah, the bitter angle doesn't quite work either. Not for every fan of those teams as you're saying here.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. That summer of 2010 was pretty much every man/team for himself. Sure there were people that thought Lebron would never leave and another high profile free agent might join him there. But why would anyone but Cav fans be rooting for that to happen?

LBJ had just "given up" on Cleveland in the Cavs vs. Celtics series. I don't recall the win one for Cleveland sentiment coming from Bulls, Nets, and Knicks fans that summer. The vast majority wanted LBJ, and thought the best way to get him was to acquire as much talent as possible to play with him. Well the blueprint to getting LBJ was correct but it happened in a way and in a place no one imagined. That's when it turned.

Quote: Originally Posted by VDusen04

But watching James not only attempt to upgrade his supporting cast, but more less making a mockery of an entire conference by taking three Eastern Conference all-star starters and placing them on one team, that was way more than I ever thought would be necessary, to the point of it feeling stacked and unsavory.

I hear you, but where's the line?

If he signed with Chicago to join Rose and they signed Boozer would that be OK? If he joins Amare in NY and they sign a borderline all-star is that OK?

If Kevin Love forces his way out of Minny and somehow ended up in OKC with Durant and Westbrook are we OK with that? It's seems we all understand no one can win a championship by themselves, but we don't want them to get too much help.

This league is all about acquiring and retaining talent. People went nuts when the Lakers got Nash and Dwight. But the results showed that winning with a stacked team is not as always as easy as it appears. I personally can't hold it against any team or player doing whatever they can to win.

[VDusen04]

Quote: Originally Posted by DIESEL

I hear you, but where's the line? If he signed with Chicago to join Rose and they signed Boozer would that be OK? If he joins Amare in NY and they sign a borderline all-star is that OK? If Kevin Love forces his way out of Minny and somehow ended up in OKC with Durant and Westbrook are we OK with that? It's seems we all understand no one can win a championship by themselves, but we don't want them to get too much help. This league is all about acquiring and retaining talent. People went nuts when the Lakers got Nash and Dwight. But the results showed that winning with a stacked team is not as always as easy as it appears. I personally can't hold it against any team or player doing whatever they can to win.

Yep, that's the question I've had to ask myself (i.e. where's the line?) I never had to think about the line before 2010 because there always seemed to be something in the way preventing three prime Dream Teamers from making their own super squad from scratch. Even in the 2000's Celtics case, they had to trade their entire roster just to get their hands on two other post-prime all-stars who were both over 30 years old. And as good as Pierce, Garnett, and Allen were individually, none of them were in the same stratosphere as LeBron James.

As such, I think I figured LeBron was going to end up playing with another good player that summer of 2010. I didn't pay super close attention, so I didn't know Chris Bosh had no interest in coming to Cleveland at the time. So I thought it'd make sense for Cleveland to pick up someone like that, if not someone a little less talented. And I thought that'd be enough to push for a ring. Or James going to NY or Chi still would have seemed to be a competitive step up without any sort of guarantee. After all, Carlos Boozer is no Dream Teamer.

I'm not sure any other potential team up at this point is comparable to the LeBron James Heat situation. And that's because, again, there's absolutely no one else in the NBA like him, and there hasn't been - maybe ever. I do not believe his Cavs supporting cast was as trashy as folks love to maintain these days, but I surely admit it was not star-studded. James led that squad to nearly 70 wins. He brings out the best in his teammates. I thought he was a legend regardless of team championships. But to already be competing for a ring ('07 Finals, considerable favorites a couple years later after sweeping first two rounds, in position to sign help) then deciding it wouldn't be good enough to merely upgrade, instead opting to create the most monstrously stacked-full-of-talent team possible, seemed like it wasn't just teetering on my personal line, but taking 15 steps over it.

Still, yes, I think that line may vary from person to person.

[King_B_Mack]

Quote: Originally Posted by DIESEL

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. That summer of 2010 was pretty much every man/team for himself. Sure there were people that thought Lebron would never leave and another high profile free agent might join him there. But why would anyone but Cav fans be rooting for that to happen? LBJ had just "given up" on Cleveland in the Cavs vs. Celtics series. I don't recall the win one for Cleveland sentiment coming from Bulls, Nets, and Knicks fans that summer. The vast majority wanted LBJ, and thought the best way to get him was to acquire as much talent as possible to play with him. Well the blueprint to getting LBJ was correct but it happened in a way and in a place no one imagined. That's when it turned. I hear you, but where's the line? If he signed with Chicago to join Rose and they signed Boozer would that be OK? If he joins Amare in NY and they sign a borderline all-star is that OK? If Kevin Love forces his way out of Minny and somehow ended up in OKC with Durant and Westbrook are we OK with that? It's seems we all understand no one can win a championship by themselves, but we don't want them to get too much help. This league is all about acquiring and retaining talent. People went nuts when the Lakers got Nash and Dwight. But the results showed that winning with a stacked team is not as always as easy as it appears. I personally can't hold it against any team or player doing whatever they can to win.

People who are fans of those teams were definitely saying that in here. I know it was four years ago, but I was here. Obviously like everything else, not every single fan of those teams felt that way, but there was a significant number of people that voiced that if they're team didn't sign LeBron they hoped he stayed in Cleveland to live up to his promise. There were even a select few who said the whole time that they wanted to see him stay in Cleveland. Not every fan rolled with the line of thinking that you're trying to dump on entire fan bases of those teams. Just like not every Miami Heat fan is some clueless, poser jackass that didn't give two ****s about the Heat until they were on videos taunting Cleveland the day after The Decision and showing up at the Big 3 rally with LeBron jerseys that were their first ever Heat jerseys.

As for whether it would have been okay for him to come play with Derrick and Boozer. A) The Bulls wouldn't have been able to get them both. B) I would have definitely been fine with him coming here considering at the time, Derrick Rose being an MVP caliber player wasn't something that myself or anybody could see coming, especially not as soon as it happened. Prior to that offseason, the Bulls had won 41 games, were the eighth seed in the east and were disposed of quite easily against LeBron's Cavs. Even after the offseason they ended up having after missing out on either of the Big 3, nobody had them finishing in the top 3 of the east let alone having the best record in the league and when Derrick asked at media day "why can't I be MVP" people laughed at him.

As for Kevin Love, if he ends up in OKC for another superteam is that okay? Key word there is ANOTHER. LeBron and company have set the terms for how the league is now. You can't win without super teams now. That's the landscape so the only way to compete is by teaming up. So I'd be fine with him doing that given the nature of the league now.

[Matty Aqua]

I didn't have a problem with Lebron James wanting out of Cleveland, The Cavaliers attempt to build around Lebron was pathetic, and even Kyrie Irving for that matter(depending on who they draft this year) was pathetic...
I recall Ira Newbile,Daniel Gibson,Larry Hughes and a 36 year old Shaq logging key minutes for Cleveland against the Spurs in "07"
We could all see that the situation was frustrating Lebron in Cleveland..

How he handled it tho was also pathetic....Storming off in 2007 after the Game 4 loss, taking the Cavs jersey off was a slap in the face to the fans and a terrible attitude considering it was his first time to the big dance against a great team in San Antonio led by Timmy Duncan and Ginobili in there primes of there careers and an a rising superstar in Tony Parker!, all great players still to this day!.

People say but "Michael didn't team up with Hakeem, or Magic, or Bird, Ewing, Barkley...No...Michael had Scotty Pippen, Dennis Rodman, George Gervin,Ron Harper,Toni Kukoc and others", so he didn't need to look elsewhere to be on contending teams, But Michael didn't have a TV show dedicated to "His Return" to basketball after his baseball stint, he never said were going to win "4,5,6,7" championships together!, he doesn't have a tattoo pro-claiming to be the "chosen one" on his back, He stood too and overcame the many challenges thrown against him (The Bad Boys of Detroit, Larry Bird & the Celtics, Lakers and Magic Johnson, Malone and Stockton's Jazz) and he rose up through the pain or circumstances.

People fell in love with Michael Jordan because he was a great player and greater personality and even when Jordan sunk that buzzer beater that beats you(Craig Ehlo/Byron Russel?) or makes amazing plays to the hoop that defy gravity and made us so angry that you want to throw you remote though your television set or roundhouse kick a giant hole into your wall because your team almost beat Michael Jordan's Bulls and lost it at the last second...His message was simple, "I will not give up, I will beat you in anyway possible and if I can't...I will get better until I can and I will be back"...even tho at the time some people hated the Chicago Bulls...They still loved Michael Jordan.

The Superstar teaming of Lebron,Wade and Bosh while later adding Mike Miller,Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis etc will always be a controversial moment and as a long-time fan of the NBA it's a very hard pill to swallow when I see the Miami Heat racking up titles, and debate whether Lebron James is in the same company as the great ones. Lebron James gives us nothing other than some swagger and stats ,He didn't have patience, He didn't wan't too suffer the excruciating period of building a team around him, facing the challenges of up and coming squads and learn to over-come them, defeat them, Be better than them, and ultimately earn their respect!...Lebron looked for a quick fix express freeway to catch up on those multiple championship rings owned by the great ones!.

In a hypothetical scenario what would the NBA landscape look like now if "The Chosen One" Lebron James chose with Cleveland?...Of course we will never know as the butterfly effect it had on the NBA is impossible to un-do, But would we still be hell bent on tearing down Lebron's right to the throne of being the greatest of all time?...maybe not?...maybe bringing just one championship to the Cleveland Cavaliers franchise would have done more for Lebrons legacy than the 3 or 4 he might end up with in Miami?

[King_B_Mack]

Quote: Originally Posted by aquaman

I didn't have a problem with Lebron James wanting out of Cleveland, The Cavaliers attempt to build around Lebron was pathetic, and even Kyrie Irving for that matter(depending on who they draft this year) was pathetic... I recall Ira Newbile,Daniel Gibson,Larry Hughes and a 36 year old Shaq logging key minutes for Cleveland against the Spurs in "07" We could all see that the situation was frustrating Lebron in Cleveland.. How he handled it tho was also pathetic....Storming off in 2007 after the Game 4 loss, taking the Cavs jersey off was a slap in the face to the fans and a terrible attitude considering it was his first time to the big dance against a great team in San Antonio led by Timmy Duncan and Ginobili in there primes of there careers and an a rising superstar in Tony Parker!, all great players still to this day!. People say but "Michael didn't team up with Hakeem, or Magic, or Bird, Ewing, Barkley...No...Michael had Scotty Pippen, Dennis Rodman, George Gervin,Ron Harper,Toni Kukoc and others", so he didn't need to look elsewhere to be on contending teams, But Michael didn't have a TV show dedicated to "His Return" to basketball after his baseball stint, he never said were going to win "4,5,6,7" championships together!, he doesn't have a tattoo pro-claiming to be the "chosen one" on his back, He stood too and overcame the many challenges thrown against him (The Bad Boys of Detroit, Larry Bird & the Celtics, Lakers and Magic Johnson, Malone and Stockton's Jazz) and he rose up through the pain or circumstances. People fell in love with Michael Jordan because he was a great player and greater personality and even when Jordan sunk that buzzer beater that beats you(Craig Ehlo/Byron Russel?) or makes amazing plays to the hoop that defy gravity and made us so angry that you want to throw you remote though your television set or roundhouse kick a giant hole into your wall because your team almost beat Michael Jordan's Bulls and lost it at the last second...His message was simple, "I will not give up, I will beat you in anyway possible and if I can't...I will get better until I can and I will be back"...even tho at the time some people hated the Chicago Bulls...They still loved Michael Jordan. The Superstar teaming of Lebron,Wade and Bosh while later adding Mike Miller,Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis etc will always be a controversial moment and as a long-time fan of the NBA it's a very hard pill to swallow when I see the Miami Heat racking up titles, and debate whether Lebron James is in the same company as the great ones. Lebron James gives us nothing other than some swagger and stats ,He didn't have patience, He didn't wan't too suffer the excruciating period of building a team around him, facing the challenges of up and coming squads and learn to over-come them, defeat them, Be better than them, and ultimately earn their respect!...Lebron looked for a quick fix express freeway to catch up on those multiple championship rings owned by the great ones!. In a hypothetical scenario what would the NBA landscape look like now if "The Chosen One" Lebron James chose with Cleveland?...Of course we will never know as the butterfly effect it had on the NBA is impossible to un-do, But would we still be hell bent on tearing down Lebron's right to the throne of being the greatest of all time?...maybe not?...maybe bringing just one championship to the Cleveland Cavaliers franchise would have done more for Lebrons legacy than the 3 or 4 he might end up with in Miami?

You sure about that?

[23]

Quote: Originally Posted by King_B_Mack

You sure about that?

[DIESEL]

Quote: Originally Posted by King_B_Mack

Obviously like everything else, not every single fan of those teams felt that way, but there was a significant number of people that voiced that if they're team didn't sign LeBron they hoped he stayed in Cleveland to live up to his promise. There were even a select few who said the whole time that they wanted to see him stay in Cleveland. Not every fan rolled with the line of thinking that you're trying to dump on entire fan bases of those teams.

You are pretty much confirming what I said here. I never lumped any team's entire fan base into this but I will stand by what I said.

During the recruitment of Lebron James in the summer of 2010 the ***majority*** of Bulls, Knicks, and Nets fans:

a. Hoped their team could convince Lebron to leave Cleveland by offering him the opportunity to play with a better supporting cast

or

b. Figured he would stay in Cleveland and be able to lure a decent 2nd option

When Lebron chose:

c. Go to a team nobody even considered and play with better players than anyone else could possibly offer......

many fans from the 3 teams I mentioned earlier, instantly found a laundry list of reasons to despise the player they were salivating over just days before. I have no problem with people feeling this way, but it's disingenuous to pretend they wouldn't have welcomed Lebron and his friends to their team if given the opportunity.