Sports Daily: LeBron's Declaration

[Dice]

Quote: Originally Posted by ojandpizza

Tonight my brother and his friends were talking about Kobe's comments on this topic, and one of them said it's "hard to make a Mount Rushmore of just 4 players, it should be 4 at each position." So we all kind of gave our input on the subject and I thought I would just share the list I came up with and if anyone wants to post theirs or comment on mine jump in. My voting was a combination of both how good the player was, and also the impact they had on the league. I'll list some credentials out by some of the players, which will all just be based on my opinion. Point Guard: * Bob Cousy (first great true PG, pioneered "flashy" and showmanship) * Oscar Robertson (mr. Triple double, first guard to dominate all areas of the game.) * Magic Johnson (best all around PG of all time, one of a kind talent, showtime, Bird-Magic rivalry) * John Stockton (best pure PG of all time, assist and steals leader) Shooting Guard: * Jerry West (one of the first combo guards, NBA logo, Mr. Clutch) * George Gervin (one of the first great pure scoring wing men, first guard with 3 straight scoring titles, finger roll, NBA icon) * Michael Jordan (greatest SG of all time, one of a kind talent) * Kobe Bryant (one of the best SGs of all time, best guard in this era) Small Forward: *John Havlicek (the original 6th man, great all around player) * Dr. J (biggest impact on the above the rim play, NBA icon) * Larry Bird (one of the best shooters ever, Magic-Bird rivalry, top 10 player ever) * LeBron James (best all around SF of all time, one of a kind talent) Power Forward: *Kevin McHale (one of the best PFs ever, excellent post moves) *Karl Malone (excellent long career, great scorer, excelled in pick-and-roll play) *Tim Duncan (best PF of all time, best player of his decade) * Dirk Nowitzki (best international player of all time, best outside shooting big man) Center: *George Mikan (leagues first superstar and first dominant big man) *Bill Russell (greatest winner, defender, and leader of all time) * Kareem (best all around center of all time, NBA icon, sky-hook) * Shaq (dominant athlete, biggest force on an NBA court, one of a kind talent) Players who just missed the cut: * Wilt - it was tough to leave off Wilt. Even though he was just as dominant, if not more, than Shaq I just feel that Shaq changed the way teams guarded him and refs called games more-so than any other big men... Also with all the great big men in league history I really didn't want to take two guys from the same era, Russell basically beat him out off a spot for me. Rick Barry - great all around player, awesome free throw form, one of the first point forwards, and one of the first forwards to league the league in scoring by his outside play. Elgin Baylor - one of the best all around players ever, statistical monster. Scottie Pippen - possibly the best sidekick ever, played robin to everyone's favorite basketball duo, incredible defender. Allen Iverson - best scoring little man I've ever saw play, helped pioneer the modern NBA with the headbands, arm sleeves, and tattoos, one of the best SGs to ever play.

I think Scottie should have been on the list over Havlicek for the simple fact that he re-defined and raised the bar on the 'point forward' position. Yes, he wasn't the first but he elevated it.

And I hear you on Hakeem. His impact was more on the era he played. BUT the era he played in was probably the best crop of centers the league will ever see. And for a while, he was the best of the bunch.

[bakan723]

Had to facepalm when I heard this. You don't say that about yourself, lol, you're supposed to let others say stuff like that. herp

No wonder why ppl don't like this guy. What a clown.

[Dice]

Quote: Originally Posted by bakan723

Had to facepalm when I heard this. You don't say that about yourself, lol, you're supposed to let others say stuff like that. herp No wonder why ppl don't like this guy. What a clown.

Michael Jordan proclaimed to be the greatest player of all-time. Was he a clown for saying that?

[ojandpizza]

Quote: Originally Posted by Dice

Michael Jordan proclaimed to be the greatest player of all-time. Was he a clown for saying that?

And guys like Oscar, Wilt, and I'm sure other old players all claimed they were better than Jordan and the greats from the 90's during that time period... But all those older guys were like that, West seems to be the only humble one of the bunch.

[ojandpizza]

Quote: Originally Posted by Dice

I think Scottie should have been on the list over Havlicek for the simple fact that he re-defined and raised the bar on the 'point forward' position. Yes, he wasn't the first but he elevated it. And I hear you on Hakeem. His impact was more on the era he played. BUT the era he played in was probably the best crop of centers the league will ever see. And for a while, he was the best of the bunch.

Honestly the small forward selection was the toughest for me. I originally said Baylor over Hondo and changed it, and LeBron has really finished his career and legacy yet and could have easily been left off..

If I would have put Pippen on the list it would have been more because of he and Jordan dominating their era. I was never overly impressed with his point forward abilities.. No doubt he was a point forward and that role was a critical one for Chicago, but he was never really creating a whole lot for others, teammates weren't overly benefitting from him making plays for them.. He was more of a back to the defender ball handler, like Magic and Mark Jackson, who mostly got the ball into play and let Jordan take it from their.. Not trying to discredit him for being skilled enough to be play the point forward role, it's just that it was never really something that impressed me personally the way it does some.. Completely understand you or anyone else picking him though..

Hakeem would have easily made my list had I just picked the best 4 centers, and I do agree he was the best big man in an era of what most people consider the best for centers.. But the impact Mikan, Wilt, and Shaq had.. Those guys were just rule changers from how dominant they were.. And Kareem and Russell were locks for me.

[KG]

Quote: Originally Posted by RedSceptile

LeBron isn't the 1st of his kind. People act like he's some beyond unique specimen. What about a guy like Michael Phelps whose body is pretty much tailored to swimming, it was always stated how creepy his body was almost engineered for swimming. Or Robert Nkemdiche who is freaking 300 lbs with a solid six pack, a freak specimen. Please let's not act like there aren't other guys who are freak athletes.

We're talking about basketball players. It's hard enough to compare big men vs guards let alone a hoops player vs a swimmer.

[KG]

Quote: Originally Posted by ojandpizza

Tonight my brother and his friends were talking about Kobe's comments on this topic, and one of them said it's "hard to make a Mount Rushmore of just 4 players, it should be 4 at each position." So we all kind of gave our input on the subject and I thought I would just share the list I came up with and if anyone wants to post theirs or comment on mine jump in. My voting was a combination of both how good the player was, and also the impact they had on the league. I'll list some credentials out by some of the players, which will all just be based on my opinion. Point Guard: * Bob Cousy (first great true PG, pioneered "flashy" and showmanship) * Oscar Robertson (mr. Triple double, first guard to dominate all areas of the game.) * Magic Johnson (best all around PG of all time, one of a kind talent, showtime, Bird-Magic rivalry) * John Stockton (best pure PG of all time, assist and steals leader) Shooting Guard: * Jerry West (one of the first combo guards, NBA logo, Mr. Clutch) * George Gervin (one of the first great pure scoring wing men, first guard with 3 straight scoring titles, finger roll, NBA icon) * Michael Jordan (greatest SG of all time, one of a kind talent) * Kobe Bryant (one of the best SGs of all time, best guard in this era) Small Forward: *John Havlicek (the original 6th man, great all around player) * Dr. J (biggest impact on the above the rim play, NBA icon) * Larry Bird (one of the best shooters ever, Magic-Bird rivalry, top 10 player ever) * LeBron James (best all around SF of all time, one of a kind talent) Power Forward: *Kevin McHale (one of the best PFs ever, excellent post moves) *Karl Malone (excellent long career, great scorer, excelled in pick-and-roll play) *Tim Duncan (best PF of all time, best player of his decade) * Dirk Nowitzki (best international player of all time, best outside shooting big man) Center: *George Mikan (leagues first superstar and first dominant big man) *Bill Russell (greatest winner, defender, and leader of all time) * Kareem (best all around center of all time, NBA icon, sky-hook) * Shaq (dominant athlete, biggest force on an NBA court, one of a kind talent) Players who just missed the cut: * Wilt - it was tough to leave off Wilt. Even though he was just as dominant, if not more, than Shaq I just feel that Shaq changed the way teams guarded him and refs called games more-so than any other big men... Also with all the great big men in league history I really didn't want to take two guys from the same era, Russell basically beat him out off a spot for me. Rick Barry - great all around player, awesome free throw form, one of the first point forwards, and one of the first forwards to league the league in scoring by his outside play. Elgin Baylor - one of the best all around players ever, statistical monster. Scottie Pippen - possibly the best sidekick ever, played robin to everyone's favorite basketball duo, incredible defender. Allen Iverson - best scoring little man I've ever saw play, helped pioneer the modern NBA with the headbands, arm sleeves, and tattoos, one of the best SGs to ever play.

I'm not going to comment on guys who pre-dated my basketball viewership but it's well documented that the NBA changed A LOT of rules because of Wilt. http://www.nba.com/history/players/chamberlain_bio.html "During his career, his dominance precipitated many rules changes. These rules changed included widening the lane, instituting offensive goaltending and revising rules governing inbounding the ball and shooting free throws (Chamberlain would leap with the ball from behind the foul line to deposit the ball in the basket)." IMO, those are huge rule changes

[ojandpizza]

Quote: Originally Posted by KG

I'm not going to comment on guys who pre-dated my basketball viewership but it's well documented that the NBA changed A LOT of rules because of Wilt. http://www.nba.com/history/players/chamberlain_bio.html "During his career, his dominance precipitated many rules changes. These rules changed included widening the lane, instituting offensive goaltending and revising rules governing inbounding the ball and shooting free throws (Chamberlain would leap with the ball from behind the foul line to deposit the ball in the basket)." IMO, those are huge rule changes

Mikan also changed rules too. Defensive goaltending, and they widened the lane when he played as well, and widened again with Wilt.. The Wilt free throw thing was well before he became a pro I think..

I chose Mikan because he was basically the leagues first superstar. And Shaq because he was dominant like Wilt, but teams completely changed how they had to guard a big man with Shaq.. Some teams just gave up and fouled him. And refs had absolutely no idea how to ref with Shaq, it was bizarre to watch because I never full understand how a foul isn't a foul regardless of if you are 300 pounds or 200 pounds lol. The refs always looked baffled and confused with their whistles in their mouths wondering if they should blow it or not lol.

Just my opinion on it. With all the great big men deserving of a spot I really didn't want two guys from the same position who played in the same era.. Russell basically took Wilt's spot on my list.