Sound Off: Should Steroid Users Get in the HOF?

[DrJones]

Quote: Originally Posted by DamnYanks2

Ok no, that's not at all where I was going with the" terrible people" comment. I have no idea how you arrived at that. My point was, baseball writers, the commish, and some fans have this notion that McGwire, Sosa, Bonds, Clemens etc, any steroid user was just a horrible human being. The media treated these individuals like they were real criminals, and a lot of the public bought it.

Ah, I see. I'm just saying that I have no problem saying that:

A. Roger Clemens is a cheater and a liar
B. Roger Clemens is a horrible human being (see McCreary, Mindy)
C. Roger Clemens is a Hall of Fame pitcher

Many fans and media have difficulty with that. They want to think on-field accomplishment goes hand in hand with character. "Jameis Winston loses to Auburn: karmic payback!" "Jameis Winston beats Auburn: redemption!" Whereas Winston is either a victim or a scumbag regardless of how good he is.

I think it's fine for journalists to expose steroid users. I think it's fine for journalists to call users (or Albert Belle, or Kevin Brown) awful human beings. I don't think it's fine for journalists to use that as a reason not to vote for them. A big reason Kirby Puckett sailed easily into Cooperstown (not saying he shouldn't be there, but he was far, far from being a lock based on merit) was because of how gosh-darn likable he was. Oops.

[speels]

Quote: Originally Posted by Perfect Zero

I personally think the Hall has outlived its useful life. So many people want the Hall to be so many different things that it will never live up to anybody's expectations. We all have the stats in front of us so we know who was good and who wasn't. The Hall isn't really meant to be about stats anyways or else there would be thresholds to meet. I think it's a non issue.

I agree, the baseball Hall of Fame is a joke. I mean there is no way that non-playing people should be voting on who is the best and deserves to be in the hall. These people are writers and in no way are they experts at the game. I think for the Hall to gain any sort of momentum they need to go to a selection committee made up of former players, Hall of Famers, owners, umpires, etc to come up with people that deserve to be honoured as HoF.
It is the biggest joke in sports........................next to my Leafs!!

[speels]

Quote: Originally Posted by DrJones

Ah, I see. I'm just saying that I have no problem saying that: A. Roger Clemens is a cheater and a liar B. Roger Clemens is a horrible human being (see McCreary, Mindy) C. Roger Clemens is a Hall of Fame pitcher I think it's fine for journalists to expose steroid users. I think it's fine for journalists to call users (or Albert Belle, or Kevin Brown) awful human beings. I don't think it's fine for journalists to use that as a reason not to vote for them. A big reason Kirby Puckett sailed easily into Cooperstown (not saying he shouldn't be there, but he was far, far from being a lock based on merit) was because of how gosh-darn likable he was. Oops.

How many writers have lied in an article or stretched the truth. They are all worthy of their vote I am sure.

[DrJones]

Quote: Originally Posted by speels

I agree, the baseball Hall of Fame is a joke. I mean there is no way that non-playing people should be voting on who is the best and deserves to be in the hall. These people are writers and in no way are they experts at the game. I think for the Hall to gain any sort of momentum they need to go to a selection committee made up of former players, Hall of Famers, owners, umpires, etc to come up with people that deserve to be honoured as HoF.

That way leads to Gold Glove voting and the Veterans Committee ("Let's put my old drinking buddy who hit .237 in the Hall!"). Pass.

[DamnYanks2]

Quote: Originally Posted by DrJones

Ah, I see. I'm just saying that I have no problem saying that: A. Roger Clemens is a cheater and a liar B. Roger Clemens is a horrible human being (see McCreary, Mindy) C. Roger Clemens is a Hall of Fame pitcher Many fans and media have difficulty with that. They want to think on-field accomplishment goes hand in hand with character. "Jameis Winston loses to Auburn: karmic payback!" "Jameis Winston beats Auburn: redemption!" Whereas Winston is either a victim or a scumbag regardless of how good he is. I think it's fine for journalists to expose steroid users. I think it's fine for journalists to call users (or Albert Belle, or Kevin Brown) awful human beings. I don't think it's fine for journalists to use that as a reason not to vote for them. A big reason Kirby Puckett sailed easily into Cooperstown (not saying he shouldn't be there, but he was far, far from being a lock based on merit) was because of how gosh-darn likable he was. Oops.

That's the issue, for every Roger Clemens there's a Jay Mariotti. For every Albert Belle. There's a Steve Phillips. It goes hand and hand. Sportswriters aren't moral angels either. I'm sick of the holier then thou bs.

[Sheamazin]

What about managers that clearly benefitted from the steroid use of their players?

Torre and LaRussa had a bunch of players(Canseco, McGuire, Giambi, Pettite and more) on their teams when they winning Championships.

The players aren't the only ones who benefitted and had major success from the use of steroids.

[DamnYanks2]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sheamazin

What about managers that clearly benefitted from the steroid use of their players? Torre and LaRussa had a bunch of players(Canseco, McGuire, Giambi, Pettite and more) on their teams when they winning Championships. The players aren't the only ones who benefitted and had major success from the use of steroids.

Just as Bud Selig benefitted from the players. The hypocrisy is outstanding.

[worstsportsgamer1977]

yes they should. especially if they were great players. just tell there story truthfully. mac and bonds, without a doubt deserve to be in the hof. even though they were on steroids they were both extremely talented. the steroids just kept them around a little longer. put them in, mabey just dont do a ceremony for them.