NBA 2K14: As Problems Mount, Some Gamers Getting Refunds from Retailers

[TalenT]

Quote: Originally Posted by The 24th Letter

I just cant wrap my head around all the modes being tied to online...I mean, nobody in the board room said: "Well, our servers havent been reliable in a very long time, maybe this isnt such a good idea" Nobody? Ronnie and LD2k are going to have a heck of a time trying to market this game here next year LOL. I think its time for 2k go into damage control mode...

This is exactly what I was thinking Lol ...It's like the financial gain overshadowed the progress of the game and the concerns of the consumer (Were looking at you VC!).

Remember back when 2K first started? When they were a smaller company battling the likes of the other company...the industry giant? Back when it felt like they were in it for the satisfaction of making a great basketball game. It was their passion. They continued to improve on the little things until they eventually surpassed them. I miss those days. Now it seems like there's a more important priority. That money is a monster man.

[omega412930]

i dont hav a xbox one but i hav a 360 is this game just a problem for next gen or should i not buy this for 360 also?

[WTF]

Mainly for the Next Gen consoles.

[SteboSSK]

Any news on if Gamestop is doing this?

[kevmasood]

Quote: Originally Posted by The 24th Letter

Unfortunately I can't trade mine in....just need a BBALL game in my life and Live isn't quite giving me a fix...guess I just have NBA 2k: Quick Game Edition for the time being...smh

Im with u, cant do it, thats all i play, so quick game, season mode, freindly games

[flawed]

I studied law and used to work giving consumer advice in the UK (England and Wales, but the law isn't too different in Scotland).

I am SO annoyed at 2K, the state of this game/the servers, wasting my Christmas with their nonsense, their (non)response and the constant lies they peddle on Twitter that I've decided to make a post to help UK residents get a refund!

This product is clearly defective (to state the obvious)! if you bought it at a shop/internet retailer, and received a disk, this is fairly straight straightforward; you can get a refund for up to 6 months* under the Sale of Goods act 1979, for a product that isn't:

As Described (check) OR
Of satisfactory quality (check) OR
Fit for purpose (check)

The usual process is to go to the place you purchased it from, ask for a refund and they'll lie to you, tell you can't get a refund after 7 days/can't get a refund if the seal has been broken/can't get a refund for software/that you have to send it back to the developers or Microsoft (etc). All of this is false, and wrong information (most stores try it on because most people will go away with their tails between their legs - don't do that!). Note; many stores deliberately misinform their staff on consumer rights, so they may think they know what they are talking about (and be really convincing) when they are telling you that you should return it to Microsoft, or that you don't have any rights, because they believe it themselves. Talk to the organ grinder (i.e. ask to speak to the manager!).

Inform them clearly that you wish to assert your legal rights (not warranty rights, not store refund policy, etc). You'll probably need a letter, so it might help to draft one and take it with you if you're going to the store. I'd also print out some webpages which explain the problems, the first post in this thread is a good example, the Kotaku article springs to mind; any news pages which mention the serious/ongoing problems. This is mainly to let the retailer know you're not trying to blag a refund for a game you don't like/have finished/etc.

There are some SOGA template letters on the BBC website. Ask to speak to the store manager and give him a copy, tell him another will be in the post (send it recorded delivery, and keep a copy for yourself, of course!).

If you bought the game from a high street store, skip this paragraph. If you bought it on the internet rather than from a store you can do all of the above, but first ask for a refund, then send an e-mail with the SOGA "letter" (e-mail has been ruled to be an acceptable format to deliver legal communications), similarly below, you can send the 14 day warning letter via e-mail (always a good idea in the first instance to ask for the e-mail to be sent to a director and/or legal representative - not only does this make it look like you mean business, but it means you hopefully get through to someone who knows what your on about and can/will help you!).

At this point most shops/stores will simply give in and give you a refund (because they now know that you know your rights and are willing to chase them for a refund. It becomes more cost effective to refund you than waste the man hours chasing it around, and of course, potentially having to go to court!). Refunding you at this stage is the path of least resistance, businesses exist to make a profit. The issue starts to become unprofitable for them once they have to deal with the legal ramifications of not abiding by basic consumer law!

If they play hardball and won't refund you, you may want to go to your local CAB, where you can get free consumer advice (many Universities also have drop in law centres). Or call the Citizens Advice consumer advice line on 08454 040506.

If they STILL refuse to refund you, the next step is to send a 14 day warning of impending small claims court action (again; there are plenty of template letters on the internet for this. Search for "consumer court warning"). At THIS point nearly every retailer will just pay up, because, unlike you, they will need to pay for expensive legal advice (and any lawyer worth his salt would tell them to pay up anyway!).

The cost for them to visit a solicitor far outweighs the £50(ish) refund! So anyone with 2 braincells to rub together will simply pay up (consumer law is, very deliberately, weighed heavily in favour of the consumer). If they don't pay up, they are probably ignoring you altogether and not responding, and you'll want to file a small claims action against them (and at his point you should definitely get some consumer advice!).

Chances are they won't even show up, you'll win a default judgment, they'll get a county court judgement against them, and they'll eventually be forced to pay up. BUT, to reiterate; in my experience (and I've had a lot), things have never gone this far over such an inexpensive item. The type of cases that go this far are for things like mobility scooters, home extensions, cars, etc (i.e. things costing thousands of pounds!). But if it does get to this stage you need to get advice (probably before filing the court papers TBH, as you incur a (refundable - if you win) cost for filing them!).

Many places will tell you software is excluded from the Sale of Goods Act, this is incorrect IF it is supplied on disk (as it is supplied in a tangible format, a requirement for the Act). The key case, should you wish to quote it or write it down to put on the letter you take to the retailer is St Alban’s v ICL, where Glidewell, LJ said that software supplied on "hard media" (a disc!) counts as "goods", and so they are protected by the Sale of Goods Act as such! See this slide.


Also, see part 8, page 3 of this government paper (this whole paper is dedicated to digital goods and consumer law, and may be useful for those who have downloaded the game from Microsoft!).

I'm taking the game back (to Argos, of all places!) for a full refund in a couple of days. I'm also currently in a dispute with Microsoft about lost VC (they billed me, so the contract is between them and me. They are telling me to go to 2K, who just keep fobbing me off with "open ports in your firewall" e-mails a week after I send them an e-mail asking for a refund for lost VC! They are beyond useless!). Note: if you have this problem, as a last resort, you can ask your bank to do a chargeback if you paid with debit/credit card! See here for a guide on requesting a chargeback.

Which reminds me, if you purchased this game with a console and paid for it on a credit card you are protected by Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act, which makes your credit card provider jointly liable for any problems (this is only for purchases of £100 or more - so if you got the game in a package with your console AND paid by CC you're laughing!). Your best bet in this case is to phone your credit card company and let them deal with it all. They will deal with all the legal hassle instead of you having to do it.

I've deliberately not mentioned downloads (bought from Microsoft/Sony online stores and downloaded). I'd really recommend getting personal consumer advice for digital goods, they can be really tricky. The document above goes into a lot of detail about some of the rights you have (and a lot you don't), but there are areas of law outside of consumer that can protect you from getting conned; an exchange of goods is basically just a contract, so there is a lot of contract law and cases which are relevant. TBH; this is probably beyond the scope of this post (if you are from the UK and did download the game and asked for a refund and were refused PM me and I'll try and point you to somewhere/one who can help).

* - if you're thinking that should be "6 years", it can be up to 6 years, although it depends on the expected lifecycle of the product (besides which, the game isn't 6 months old on next-gen anyway!). After 6 months the burden of proof shifts from the retailer to the consumer (you), before that the retailer has to prove that the item isn't faulty (should it ever reach court, which is very unlikely for a <£50 item!).

[mel2010]

This is why I'm going to stick it out with 2k12 for the time being...although it's impossible to find up to date rosters now

[2kfanatic]

I am a long time basketball video game fan (a little slanted in favor of 2k though). But I really hope that these refunds will hurt 2k enough for them to remove their "always online" in single player modes. They have been far to arrogant and forgot why they were successful in the first place.