Madden NFL 25 Next-Gen Gameplay Trailer and Four More War in the Trenches Videos

[dat swag]

Quote: Originally Posted by royounggoku

Lol I always thought this too but, when you think about it, it's not like the world is gonna end anytime soon. There's gonna be one day where Madden won't have the exclusive license and I will be there with controller in hand.

If you really break it down though...Football is just Football so once you make a game and get the logic and basic fundamentals down right there is no reason to make any major changes outside of graphics, animations and presentation. A perfect example of this is MLB The Show. So sure its 9-10 years later but its the old saying of do it right the first time and there is no need to reinvent the wheel. Madden just never got it right and is only now just trying to correct years of misdirection.

2K5 got it right that year, nailed much of the game-play logic, animations and killed it in the presentation while Madden got caught sleeping at the wheel.

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by dat swag

No disrespect but turning the comparison into some sort of elitist "I'm better than you" deal is not the way to say it either. There is football logic in both games. The implementation of the logic can differ greatly but claiming a 2K player has more of a football mind than Madden player is a bit juvenile. When both game co-existed I liked both and probably played more 2k5 than Madden during those years. I think Madden was just way behind what 2K5 was doing then but now whether anyone wants to accept or acknowledge it Madden is not as bad as people claim and Madden 25 is probably their best version to date. Its nowhere near perfect or even great but Its a serviceable game, its gotten further away from the arcade nonsense (not saying it doesn't exist) and given its all we got the only thing I can do is hope that they keep making positive strides.

I could be wrong, and I should probably let him answer for himself lol, but I don't think that's what he meant. Maybe I shouldn't even say that.

I'll say this. What I take from what he said, wasn't really that 2K players are smarter than Madden players, but that the fan bases are different in what they expect out of the game.

Madden is a renowned tournament game. There are huge Madden tourneys with huge amount's of prize money at stake. The finals of which is played in Times Square on a giant stadium-esque type screen. it also had it's own TV show. It has an internet/tourney following and culture associated with it that NFL 2K doesn't really have. That being the case, it also has a different kind of pressure from a large segment of its fan base that 2K doesn't have.

A lot of people who play Madden expect certain things. They expect total control. They expect to be able to do anything practically, whether it has a foundation in Football principles or not, and they expect it to be viable in the game, as long as they put sufficient hours into practicing what ever it is they want to do. This is just reality.

For many, Madden is Tekken or Street Fighter. If it's in the game, and the game is on the line, then it should be used. If they work 2yrs on learning exactly how many frames of animation every move in the game uses, and know which ones use the least and leave them the least open, then they will use those moves, and only those moves, the entire match. There could be 100 combos or juggles in the game for a given situation, but they will only use the ones that do the most damage and that's it. It's just a different mindset. A tourney mindset.

Nothing wrong with it. It's just not something that 2K had to deal with so it freed them up to design the game a different way.

It's no different than COD, which is another tourney-centric influenced game. Not to say that there are no Battlefield tournaments, but it is not on the same level as COD in that regard, neither are their fan bases the same in that regard, and therefore the philosophies of the game are a little different.

Basically, I just think that the fan bases of Madden and 2K are different. Not that there aren't plenty that enjoy both, as I do (or used to anyway), but when looked at as a whole, I think that even from the somewhat casual segment of Madden players, they still have a more tourney expectation of Madden. The tourney is just against friends and family, as opposed to in Times Square, but the expectation is still the same. Madden is an anything goes head to head game.

That thinking is what leads to the nano-blitzes, and money plays, and goal line or dime defense all game, that you see, the same way that that mentality leads to infinite combos in an MVC or Street Fighter game. Just win, baby.

It is also what leads to the game being developed where those things are more prevalent. They know exactly who their fan base is.

Not dumber than the 2K fan base. Just a large segment of it has different expectations of what they want from a Football Videogame.

[GiantBlue76]

Quote: Originally Posted by Only1LT

I could be wrong, and I should probably let him answer for himself lol, but I don't think that's what he meant. Maybe I shouldn't even say that. I'll say this. What I take from what he said, wasn't really that 2K players are smarter than Madden players, but that the fan bases are different in what they expect out of the game. Madden is a renowned tournament game. There are huge Madden tourneys with huge amount's of prize money at stake. The finals of which is played in Times Square on a giant stadium-esque type screen. it also had it's own TV show. It has an internet/tourney following and culture associated with it that NFL 2K doesn't really have. That being the case, it also has a different kind of pressure from a large segment of its fan base that 2K doesn't have. A lot of people who play Madden expect certain things. They expect total control. They expect to be able to do anything practically, whether it has a foundation in Football principles or not, and they expect it to be viable in the game, as long as they put sufficient hours into practicing what ever it is they want to do. This is just reality. For many, Madden is Tekken or Street Fighter. If it's in the game, and the game is on the line, then it should be used. If they work 2yrs on learning exactly how many frames of animation every move in the game uses, and know which ones use the least and leave them the least open, then they will use those moves, and only those moves, the entire match. There could be 100 combos or juggles in the game for a given situation, but they will only use the ones that do the most damage and that's it. It's just a different mindset. A tourney mindset. Nothing wrong with it. It's just not something that 2K had to deal with so it freed them up to design the game a different way. It's no different than COD, which is another tourney-centric influenced game. Not to say that there are no Battlefield tournaments, but it is not on the same level as COD in that regard, neither are their fan bases the same in that regard, and therefore the philosophies of the game are a little different. Basically, I just think that the fan bases of Madden and 2K are different. Not that there aren't plenty that enjoy both, as I do (or used to anyway), but when looked at as a whole, I think that even from the somewhat casual segment of Madden players, they still have a more tourney expectation of Madden. The tourney is just against friends and family, as opposed to in Times Square, but the expectation is still the same. Madden is an anything goes head to head game. That thinking is what leads to the nano-blitzes, and money plays, and goal line or dime defense all game, that you see, the same way that that mentality leads to infinite combos in an MVC or Street Fighter game. Just win, baby. It is also what leads to the game being developed where those things are more prevalent. They know exactly who their fan base is. Not dumber than the 2K fan base. Just a large segment of it has different expectations of what they want from a Football Videogame.

LT - Get out of my head!!!!!!!! LOL.

This post could not be more correct. This is EXACTLY what I meant. If you've ever watched "Madden" players play in a competitive environment, they spend HOURS mastering certain plays that will ALWAYS generate pressure, for example. Or a play that ALWAYS works. If the slightest thing goes wrong, they have a fit. They don't want to see dropped passes, or bad snaps, or players tripping, or any of the realistic elements. They want everything to work all of the time.

There is a guy in one of the leagues I play in who is a madden master. He doesn't even like football in real life and doesn't even follow the NFL. He never played football or studied the game, but he likes playing Madden and right now he's undefeated in a very, very competitive and good league. That tells you all you need to know right there.

When I made the switch to online leagues in 2004, a lot of the guys who came over to 2k5 were all Madden players. They struggled big time in the beginning and were frustrated. You couldn't run around like a chicken with your head cut off with the QB. You couldn't drop back 30 yards and throw perfect bombs to your receiver. You couldn't swerve in and out of the defense, you actually had to follow your blocks and wait for the play to develop. Drives would stall on pass interference penalties or illegal man downfield. You get my point here?

The mentality is different. That was the point I was trying to convey which LT relayed perfectly.

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by GiantBlue76

LT - Get out of my head!!!!!!!! LOL. This post could not be more correct. This is EXACTLY what I meant. If you've ever watched "Madden" players play in a competitive environment, they spend HOURS mastering certain plays that will ALWAYS generate pressure, for example. Or a play that ALWAYS works. If the slightest thing goes wrong, they have a fit. They don't want to see dropped passes, or bad snaps, or players tripping, or any of the realistic elements. They want everything to work all of the time. There is a guy in one of the leagues I play in who is a madden master. He doesn't even like football in real life and doesn't even follow the NFL. He never played football or studied the game, but he likes playing Madden and right now he's undefeated in a very, very competitive and good league. That tells you all you need to know right there. When I made the switch to online leagues in 2004, a lot of the guys who came over to 2k5 were all Madden players. They struggled big time in the beginning and were frustrated. You couldn't run around like a chicken with your head cut off with the QB. You couldn't drop back 30 yards and throw perfect bombs to your receiver. You couldn't swerve in and out of the defense, you actually had to follow your blocks and wait for the play to develop. Drives would stall on pass interference penalties or illegal man downfield. You get my point here? The mentality is different. That was the point I was trying to convey which LT relayed perfectly.

Lol. I wish I could get into the heads of Tiburon employees, but I digress.

This is something that I do see with Madden, that I don't see as much, and I don't think exists on the same scale, as it does in NFL 2K. I think that there are many people that aren't big Football fans, or who don't watch much Football, if any, that like Madden. They are just competitive people, and see that Madden is a game with tourney cred, and that's enough for them.

It is a testament to what Tiburon has created, if you take a step back and think about it. It is a major negative though if you're a fan of sim Football.

The second part I bolded isn't totally fair though. While I do believe (I don't have any raw data to back it up) that there is a larger contingent of the Madden fan base that may not be all that into Football, than say 2K's, I don't think that saying that someone who has no Football knowledge being great at Madden, necessarily means that Madden is flawed.

I'm sure most people that are good at ARMA have never actually been in a war. I know I've never been, yet I'm very good at every shooter I've ever played. It's mostly reflexes, dexterity, learning maps, and learning player tendencies or strategies on a given map. I don't care what shooter you are talking about, if you have those areas down, you will be good at it. In fact you could be great at it if you only had the first two in spades. I'm also equally sure that there are plenty of people who could be great at NFL 2K with little knowledge of the NFL. As great as those games were, and as much as they were more realistic than Madden, they are still games, and with the right amount of genes and practice time, you could still make real world football knowledge irrelevant. Just like any other game.

I agree with the rest though.

[wordtobigbird]

I just want making the correct football decision to be the same as the correct Madden decision. Hard to tell my friends that they should play nickle or dime when I call formations with more WRs if they can run 4-3 all game and it works just fine..

Could create 20 examples of football vs madden decisions.

[wordtobigbird]

Quote: Originally Posted by Only1LT

I'm sure most people that are good at ARMA have never actually been in a war. I know I've never been, yet I'm very good at every shooter I've ever played. It's mostly reflexes, dexterity, learning maps, and learning player tendencies or strategies on a given map. I don't care what shooter you are talking about, if you have those areas down, you will be good at it. In fact you could be great at it if you only had the first two in spades. I'm also equally sure that there are plenty of people who could be great at NFL 2K with little knowledge of the NFL. As great as those games were, and as much as they were more realistic than Madden, they are still games, and with the right amount of genes and practice time, you could still make real world football knowledge irrelevant. Just like any other game.

As far as this comparison goes.. you can use those same criteria (reflexes, dexterity, learning tendencies) to be good at any game. But my friends who do really well in BF3 do better because they are playing as if they are in war, as if they only have own life. So they ALWAYS check their corners consistently, always make sure they are in cover before taking on someone, know when to attack/retreat based on enemy having a shotgun/sniper etc. Because playing unrealistically (running into the open, heading into a hallway where the enemy has a shotgun, trying to kill someone in a tank with an anti-infantry weapon, etc) doesn't work. So while they may not have the best reflexes, playing with their brain leads to KDs above 2-3. In Madden, playing unrealistic football works just fine and sometimes even better than playing realistically. So you can be great at Madden using completely unrealistic tactics.

So you can definitely be good at any football game without much football knowledge but the game shouldn't reward you for playing unrealistically.

[cody.stevens]

blocking does look good, but all plays were the 4 d-linemen rushing no lb's or defensive backs blitzed. I want to see how the line picks them up.

[dat swag]

Quote: Originally Posted by cody.stevens

blocking does look good, but all plays were the 4 d-linemen rushing no lb's or defensive backs blitzed. I want to see how the line picks them up.

I believe the video with the Panthers showed a DB blitzing. Take a look at that one again