Madden NFL 25 Next-Gen Gameplay Trailer and Four More War in the Trenches Videos

[apollon42]

Quote: Originally Posted by ausar72

You know what's crazy, is it's going on 10 YEARS since NFL 2K5 was released. 10 YEARS!!! The conversation is begining to sound a lot like how people discuss the old Tecmo Super Bowl games, back in the day. Crazy! But I'm still holding out hope that one day 2K will be allowed the opportunity to get back in the game.

Tecmo Super Bowl was the ****

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by dat swag

I always felt like 2K made me a slave to the animation and gave me a little less control than Madden but I did not have a huge problem with that because I also felt that the football logic in 2k was better. So I could call a defense and more often than not the defense would do what it was intended to do in 2k. Whereas in Madden if I call a cov 2 to stop something in the flat I'd be scratching my head when a pass to the flat was successfully completed for a positive again. IMO that was the give and take that separated both games. Often in 2K I felt like if I didn't allow the animation to play out I could not achieve the same animation manually. In Madden its the opposite IMO...If I want something specific to happen I have to make it happen myself. I loved 2K because being an X and O guy that was my thing and it was less complicated to make your schemes work when you called a D. I'm not a huge fan of all the nonsense Madden makes you do to defend a simple curl route but at the same time I like knowing I have the tools at my disposal and I like having more control.

I get what you're saying. The reality is though, that you'll never have realistic movement if you aren't "a slave to the animation" at times. You can't fall, or lose you're balance, or virtually represent momentum, without those slave animations. I think that this is what most people do not get. I'm not saying you don't specifically, I'm just saying in general.

I'm also not saying that 2K completely nails realistic movement either. Just that their philosophy for how to do realistic movement is completely sound, even if their implementation was not perfect. Whereas Tiburon has neither the right philosophy nor implementation. Unless their philosophy has changed going forward, and I'm not aware of it.

Basically it comes down to this. You want realistic movement in a game? Well, this is the only way you're going to get it.

[dat swag]

Quote: Originally Posted by Only1LT

I get what you're saying. The reality is though, that you'll never have realistic movement if you aren't "a slave to the animation" at times.

Exactly and that was the give and take that I was ok with because I agree with you wholeheartedly. I'm ok with being a slave to the animation and sacrificing a lil less control if it means the game will be solid in the logic and AI department.

Over the years Madden has become a lil more 2K-ish (i.e. QB drops & rollouts) but no way its ever going to give up its roots of being the game that sells the ability to be in control.

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by dat swag

Exactly and that was the give and take that I was ok with because I agree with you wholeheartedly. I'm ok with being a slave to the animation and sacrificing a lil less control if it means the game will be solid in the logic and AI department. Over the years Madden has become a lil more 2K-ish (i.e. QB drops & rollouts) but no way its ever going to give up its roots of being the game that sells the ability to be in control.

If Tiburon is the only studio that is allowed to make a Football game for the foreseeable future, I can't tell you how wrong I hope this is lol.

It's one of the game's biggest issues. That and ANT lol. Though the way ANT was developed may have something to do with their flawed philosophy, so I'm not sure what's the chicken, and what's the egg.

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by dat swag

I always felt like 2K made me a slave to the animation and gave me a little less control than Madden but I did not have a huge problem with that because I also felt that the football logic in 2k was better. So I could call a defense and more often than not the defense would do what it was intended to do in 2k. Whereas in Madden if I call a cov 2 to stop something in the flat I'd be scratching my head when a pass to the flat was successfully completed for a positive again. IMO that was the give and take that separated both games. Often in 2K I felt like if I didn't allow the animation to play out I could not achieve the same animation manually. In Madden its the opposite IMO...If I want something specific to happen I have to make it happen myself. I loved 2K because being an X and O guy that was my thing and it was less complicated to make your schemes work when you called a D. I'm not a huge fan of all the nonsense Madden makes you do to defend a simple curl route but at the same time I like knowing I have the tools at my disposal and I like having more control.

I felt the exact opposite actually. On gen 2 I hated Madden control. I felt like the players steered like boats. It's neither here nor there at this point, that was just my experience of it back then.

[dat swag]

Quote: Originally Posted by GiantBlue76

Agreed. Actually, the correct way to say it would be, "Madden consumers want to play Madden. The 2k guys wanted to play football." Football != Madden in its current state. The amount of **** you have to do at each snap just to get pressure is ridiculous. Not to mention to have decent coverage. It is a somewhat fun game to play if you are in the right setting, but it's not at all realistic.

No disrespect but turning the comparison into some sort of elitist "I'm better than you" deal is not the way to say it either. There is football logic in both games. The implementation of the logic can differ greatly but claiming a 2K player has more of a football mind than Madden player is a bit juvenile.

When both game co-existed I liked both and probably played more 2k5 than Madden during those years. I think Madden was just way behind what 2K5 was doing then but now whether anyone wants to accept or acknowledge it Madden is not as bad as people claim and Madden 25 is probably their best version to date. Its nowhere near perfect or even great but Its a serviceable game, its gotten further away from the arcade nonsense (not saying it doesn't exist) and given its all we got the only thing I can do is hope that they keep making positive strides.

[royounggoku]

Quote: Originally Posted by ausar72

You know what's crazy, is it's going on 10 YEARS since NFL 2K5 was released. 10 YEARS!!! The conversation is begining to sound a lot like how people discuss the old Tecmo Super Bowl games, back in the day. Crazy! But I'm still holding out hope that one day 2K will be allowed the opportunity to get back in the game.

Lol I always thought this too but, when you think about it, it's not like the world is gonna end anytime soon. There's gonna be one day where Madden won't have the exclusive license and I will be there with controller in hand.

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

I felt the exact opposite actually. On gen 2 I hated Madden control. I felt like the players steered like boats. It's neither here nor there at this point, that was just my experience of it back then.

True.

The momentum implementation that they used in Madden prior to 3rd gen was pretty bad. I do commend them for at least having some sort of momentum though, even if it was terrible.

3rd gen was when they really embraced their internet/ tourney stature and designed the game around those principles and eliminated momentum pretty much completely and it became a true twitch fest.

Movement was never realistic in Madden though and their momentum system changed very little from Genesis to the PS2/Xbox. In fact it's nearly identical. Considering Genesis is a 16bit gaming system, I think this tells you all you need to know about some of their design approaches.