NBA 2K14 Community Team-Up Recommendations

[blues rocker]

i'm not sure what 2k's direction is at this point, and i'm not sure what the team up selections say about it. i used to know what 2k was about, but after trying online this year, it's clear that sim is not their priority for online games. when it comes to online, they're clearly not interested in challenging people or rewarding good basketball decisions.

against the CPU with sim/all star settings, this game is pretty good. online: it's casual-friendly junk. i really wish i could enjoy playing this game online, but i just can't. i wouldn't even mind playing against cheesers and casuals if the game didn't reward their bad shot selection, but it does. shot success just seems very arbitrary and not based on shot quality anymore. with the introduction of sig skills, the game rewards the abuse of over-inflated player strengths just as much as being patient and using good decision making. sure, moving the ball still works pretty well, but going 1-on-1 and jacking up bad shots all game works way better than it should (and occasionally these overly-simplified tactics are even able to beat someone who uses actual strategy and makes good decisions...that should simply not be the case for a game made by VC)

2k really needs to offer 2 modes for online quick matches: sim and casual. when you go to do a quick match online, the user should have to choose if they want a "sim quick match", or a "casual quick match." wins in sim quick matches should be worth twice as much as wins in casual quick matches...then the rankings would reward the people who choose to play sim more than those who play casual quick matches. or another option would be to simply have separate leader boards for casual and sim games. either of these options would allow casual players to still play their garbage ball act like they're good, but at the end of the day 2k would be sending a message that sim play is favored and more respected. until they do this, i won't be playing 2k basketball online, if at all. i don't know if i can justify buying a game in which the online mode is unplayable to me.

[j3nkins29]

Quote: Originally Posted by blues rocker

i'm not sure what 2k's direction is at this point, and i'm not sure what the team up selections say about it. i used to know what 2k was about, but after trying online this year, it's clear that sim is not their priority for online games. when it comes to online, they're clearly not interested in challenging people or rewarding good basketball decisions. against the CPU with sim/all star settings, this game is pretty good. online: it's casual-friendly junk. i really wish i could enjoy playing this game online, but i just can't. i wouldn't even mind playing against cheesers and casuals if the game didn't reward their bad shot selection, but it does. shot success just seems very arbitrary and not based on shot quality anymore. with the introduction of sig skills, the game rewards the abuse of over-inflated player strengths just as much as being patient and using good decision making. sure, moving the ball still works pretty well, but going 1-on-1 and jacking up bad shots all game works way better than it should (and occasionally these overly-simplified tactics are even able to beat someone who uses actual strategy and makes good decisions...that should simply not be the case for a game made by VC) 2k really needs to offer 2 modes for online quick matches: sim and casual. when you go to do a quick match online, the user should have to choose if they want a "sim quick match", or a "casual quick match." wins in sim quick matches should be worth twice as much as wins in casual quick matches...then the rankings would reward the people who choose to play sim more than those who play casual quick matches. or another option would be to simply have separate leader boards for casual and sim games. either of these options would allow casual players to still play their garbage ball act like they're good, but at the end of the day 2k would be sending a message that sim play is favored and more respected. until they do this, i won't be playing 2k basketball online, if at all. i don't know if i can justify buying a game in which the online mode is unplayable to me.

I agree with most of what you said. Online in 2k has been terrible to me for years and I just don't play it. I play my real life friends and guys from this site, but that is about it. I have maybe played 2 online ranked matches in 2k13 and I have had it since launch. I don't know why they can't just bring the lobbies back that existed in the previous games. I would like them to have lobbies that can let you pick between sim, casual, or default, as well as difficulty. Similar to how it was before. I agree that it does suck that people are rewarded online for their cheesy play, and don't have to know basketball to be successful at the game. Hopefully 2k14 will be improved, but I am content to play offline until they make improvements, as I have been playing offline only for years now. Hopefully LD2K will come through on what he mentioned and we can get some sim guys in there early on to really help guide the direction of the game while it is still early in development.

[bedwardsroy19]

Genuinely humbled by anyone who recommended me. Truly appreciate the kind words.

At the end of the day we all share the same goal, the most sim basketball game the developers could possible give us. Although I can see the frustration with the length of time it might take to accomplish that goal, it is a process. Let's hope that each year the sim community gets one step closer. To think that product will be delivered overnight, or even in one year is silly.

2K has some of the best guys I've gotten to know working for them, and guys that genuinely care about their faithful. If Chris let everyone know what they are working towards, then I would bet that Chris and the team will deliver.

[stillfeelme]

Quote: Originally Posted by blues rocker

against the CPU with sim/all star settings, this game is pretty good. online: it's casual-friendly junk. i really wish i could enjoy playing this game online, but i just can't. i wouldn't even mind playing against cheesers and casuals if the game didn't reward their bad shot selection, but it does. shot success just seems very arbitrary and not based on shot quality anymore. with the introduction of sig skills, the game rewards the abuse of over-inflated player strengths just as much as being patient and using good decision making. sure, moving the ball still works pretty well, but going 1-on-1 and jacking up bad shots all game works way better than it should (and occasionally these overly-simplified tactics are even able to beat someone who uses actual strategy and makes good decisions...that should simply not be the case for a game made by VC) 2k really needs to offer 2 modes for online quick matches: sim and casual. when you go to do a quick match online, the user should have to choose if they want a "sim quick match", or a "casual quick match." wins in sim quick matches should be worth twice as much as wins in casual quick matches...then the rankings would reward the people who choose to play sim more than those who play casual quick matches. or another option would be to simply have separate leader boards for casual and sim games. either of these options would allow casual players to still play their garbage ball act like they're good, but at the end of the day 2k would be sending a message that sim play is favored and more respected. until they do this, i won't be playing 2k basketball online, if at all. i don't know if i can justify buying a game in which the online mode is unplayable to me.

I put this in many threads I hope they listen to this. How hard is it to put a sim filter vs a casual filter for online. This is really common on many multiplayer games.

I think 2K will get implement some sort of improvement to most of the gameplay improvements people voiced the most about (blocked dunks, defense, spacing, sig shots and some improvements to physics especially to next gen).

I think some posters need to calm down acting like the Teamup community guys forced 2K13 down your throats. They were playing demo level versions. The funny thing was all the gameplay exploits came months after release. No plays no 12 minute quarters? Who would have even thought of the Euro three point cheese? All I ask the community guys to report back what they see and try to exploit all issues that were in 2K13

[Leftos]

There's a huge change of perspective that some of you may never get to experience. I helped run The NLSC for a while, I complained about the same issues, I participated in wishlists and reported issues to Chris as much as I could, while creating modding tools to enhance the experience outside the game and doing a Podcast to keep the community up-to-date and engaged. And now I'm actually part of the dev team. I have seen the work. I have seen the developers, the designers, the producers, the executives. I have seen the direction. And it all saddens me.

No, I haven't regretted joining 2K. Quite the opposite. I gave up on 4 PhD offers to join 2K. I gave up on 4 years of guaranteed funding and work with some of the brightest minds Computer Science has to join 2K. And I haven't regretted it one bit. Being in the office for a bit over 2 weeks has shown me all I needed to know.

So what saddens me? It saddens me that you can't see things from the inside. The mindset of the people working here. The passion. What they want to do with the game, and the pressure a yearly release cycle puts on you. But the people here persevere and do a great job every year. They've had their missteps, and they recognize them, they acknowledge them, they do all they can to get better.

You can't satisfy all the people all the time. And some of you will consider what I'm saying vague ***-kissing about my current colleagues and employers. The few of you that really know me, know what camp I'm coming from, and what would excite me so much as far as work goes, may get a renewed hope for the franchise, may just get that bit more excited. And that's all worth it.

I hope as the preview season progresses and you find out what's in store, you can all share my excitement. And if after all you don't, which I pretty much doubt, Chris, Ronnie, me, and many other guys that may not post that much, will be around to listen to you.

We tend to ignore what the development process is like. We tend to forget how many community requests 2K13 addressed once we notice the things that bother us in this year's game. That's the way it goes. But here it is from an inside source: 2K listens. And 2K doesn't usually hire people for whom basketball video games are merely another job, another stint in the game industry. It looks for passion and talent. And that's something that's apparent no matter who you talk to here at the Novato office.

There's a lot of very cool stuff coming. Believe me or not, that's up to you. And that's as much as I can say. I hope the Team-Up members communicate that when they come back and share with you what we've shown them.

[alabamarob]

Quote: Originally Posted by Leftos

There's a huge change of perspective that some of you may never get to experience. I helped run The NLSC for a while, I complained about the same issues, I participated in wishlists and reported issues to Chris as much as I could, while creating modding tools to enhance the experience outside the game and doing a Podcast to keep the community up-to-date and engaged. And now I'm actually part of the dev team. I have seen the work. I have seen the developers, the designers, the producers, the executives. I have seen the direction. And it all saddens me. No, I haven't regretted joining 2K. Quite the opposite. I gave up on 4 PhD offers to join 2K. I gave up on 4 years of guaranteed funding and work with some of the brightest minds Computer Science has to join 2K. And I haven't regretted it one bit. Being in the office for a bit over 2 weeks has shown me all I needed to know. So what saddens me? It saddens me that you can't see things from the inside. The mindset of the people working here. The passion. What they want to do with the game, and the pressure a yearly release cycle puts on you. But the people here persevere and do a great job every year. They've had their missteps, and they recognize them, they acknowledge them, they do all they can to get better. You can't satisfy all the people all the time. And some of you will consider what I'm saying vague ***-kissing about my current colleagues and employers. The few of you that really know me, know what camp I'm coming from, and what would excite me so much as far as work goes, may get a renewed hope for the franchise, may just get that bit more excited. And that's all worth it. I hope as the preview season progresses and you find out what's in store, you can all share my excitement. And if after all you don't, which I pretty much doubt, Chris, Ronnie, me, and many other guys that may not post that much, will be around to listen to you. We tend to ignore what the development process is like. We tend to forget how many community requests 2K13 addressed once we notice the things that bother us in this year's game. That's the way it goes. But here it is from an inside source: 2K listens. And 2K doesn't usually hire people for whom basketball video games are merely another job, another stint in the game industry. It looks for passion and talent. And that's something that's apparent no matter who you talk to here at the Novato office. There's a lot of very cool stuff coming. Believe me or not, that's up to you. And that's as much as I can say. I hope the Team-Up members communicate that when they come back and share with you what we've shown them.

Anyone who is or has ever been a professional, artist, or planner/organizer of a large event/production should understand that what is seen is not always an indication of what was does done to show what was seen. Therefore, I would agree that 2k probably gives maximum effort in making the game "they" want. However, I do think that a "lay" person can still see a final product and make an objective comment on the creators goal. My issue with 2k13 is not that it the game lacks depth and options, but that its goal was not to make the game more realistic but more playable.

[mango_prom]

Quote: Originally Posted by Leftos

There's a huge change of perspective that some of you may never get to experience. I helped run The NLSC for a while, I complained about the same issues, I participated in wishlists and reported issues to Chris as much as I could, while creating modding tools to enhance the experience outside the game and doing a Podcast to keep the community up-to-date and engaged. And now I'm actually part of the dev team. I have seen the work. I have seen the developers, the designers, the producers, the executives. I have seen the direction. And it all saddens me. No, I haven't regretted joining 2K. Quite the opposite. I gave up on 4 PhD offers to join 2K. I gave up on 4 years of guaranteed funding and work with some of the brightest minds Computer Science has to join 2K. And I haven't regretted it one bit. Being in the office for a bit over 2 weeks has shown me all I needed to know. So what saddens me? It saddens me that you can't see things from the inside. The mindset of the people working here. The passion. What they want to do with the game, and the pressure a yearly release cycle puts on you. But the people here persevere and do a great job every year. They've had their missteps, and they recognize them, they acknowledge them, they do all they can to get better. You can't satisfy all the people all the time. And some of you will consider what I'm saying vague ***-kissing about my current colleagues and employers. The few of you that really know me, know what camp I'm coming from, and what would excite me so much as far as work goes, may get a renewed hope for the franchise, may just get that bit more excited. And that's all worth it. I hope as the preview season progresses and you find out what's in store, you can all share my excitement. And if after all you don't, which I pretty much doubt, Chris, Ronnie, me, and many other guys that may not post that much, will be around to listen to you. We tend to ignore what the development process is like. We tend to forget how many community requests 2K13 addressed once we notice the things that bother us in this year's game. That's the way it goes. But here it is from an inside source: 2K listens. And 2K doesn't usually hire people for whom basketball video games are merely another job, another stint in the game industry. It looks for passion and talent. And that's something that's apparent no matter who you talk to here at the Novato office. There's a lot of very cool stuff coming. Believe me or not, that's up to you. And that's as much as I can say. I hope the Team-Up members communicate that when they come back and share with you what we've shown them.

Great post! I admit that a lot of criticism towards 2k is probably overly gerneralized and based on insufficient informations about what's really going on during the dev process.
So I really get your point of view. As a customer who pays money every year to support 2ks work ( you don't have to as a PC gamer, many don't give a sh*t and download everything...), it's kind of hard to determine the reasons for certain shortcomings and issues the game might have. I mean it's not like 2k is somehow required to explain this stuff, not at all. They provide a product, and you enjoy it or you don't. That's it. And of course we don't know anything about how game design works.

So maybe AI playcalling will be broken for the 4th year in a row. Maybe rosters are still a mess. Maybe association still has the same flaws it had since 2k3. Could be that these things were impossible to fix over the course of the last 3 years, and I have wrong conceptions and expectations about how game design works. As someone clearly not qualified in anything related to programming, it's just hard to imagine that it's impossible to get AI playcalling/touches to work properly, test plays before they're added and have rosters at least a bit more based on reality.

But I completely understand your post, looking forward to your work on future games.

[vannwolfhawk]

Quote: Originally Posted by mango_prom

Great post! I admit that a lot of criticism towards 2k is probably overly gerneralized and based on insufficient informations about what's really going on during the dev process. So I really get your point of view. As a customer who pays money every year to support 2ks work ( you don't have to as a PC gamer, many don't give a sh*t and download everything...), it's kind of hard to determine the reasons for certain shortcomings and issues the game might have. I mean it's not like 2k is somehow required to explain this stuff, not at all. They provide a product, and you enjoy it or you don't. That's it. And of course we don't know anything about how game design works. So maybe AI playcalling will be broken for the 4th year in a row. Maybe rosters are still a mess. Maybe association still has the same flaws it had since 2k3. Could be that these things were impossible to fix over the course of the last 3 years, and I have wrong conceptions and expectations about how game design works. As someone clearly not qualified in anything related to programming, it's just hard to imagine that it's impossible to get AI playcalling/touches to work properly, test plays before they're added and have rosters at least a bit more based on reality. But I completely understand your post, looking forward to your work on future games.

I just had this conversation with someone I won't name (can if he wants to chime in) about the process that gave me a little bit of a better understanding to the reasons a few things happen. I will use the play calling as an example as I have always thought the plays were not tested properly to work. This was and is not the case. The plays are tested a ton and over and over but the question is when are they tested.

Each developer has an area of the game that they are working on such as Mike Wang redid the right stick dribbling, I believe it was Zach who does the post game etc. Everyone is working on their area of the game. They then blend them together (mash up if you will) and this is where bugs can happen. The game could be working just fine with the area they are working on until this happens. I think alot of you think these devs are just lazy and that is NOT the case! On the other hand maybe the 2k insider is though! But thats a whole different story! LOL

So, back to my example of plays being tested. They were and are tested constantly, but if they are not tested at the end after everything has been mashed up, tweaked, and after eliminating as many of the bugs as they could find or get out then this is why you will see some of the plays not work. They have been tested, but need to be tested at the end of everything. They all probably worked perfectly at 1 point of the testing but things happen when you throw all the different areas of the game together.

You need to trust Leftos in what he is saying because those guys care just as much as we do about putting the best game out that they can. We need to remember that they have 60-70 guys working on a game (which is small) compared to let's say a EA or madden who maybe doubles that. There is only so much you or 1 can do in a year and on a yearly dev cycle.

This game has come so far and every year it takes strides. It will NEVER be perfect. There will always be a bug, glitch, or something broken. Its impossible to have the perfect game. Its all subjective anyways. We all have areas of the game we play more than others and want this or that fixed. I love the play books. Its hard for me to complain about plays when a few years ago there weren't even plays in the game! Then there was 4 per player in 2k11 and now we can have up to 32 if we so wish per player. It's a process and I get that now. Mike had said last year that the R stick dribbling would improve in year 2 as he had more he wanted to put in that we would understand more this year. It go's in phases and maybe some things have a 2-3 year plan.

Also, I'm sure this year has to be tough as they not only have to worry about a game for this gen, but next gen as well. Rest assured these guys have a passion for what they do! They have a plan!

We just need to be patient, but still voice our complaints as they need to hear what needs to be fixed. They read these forums whether they chime in and post or not. They are here on a daily basis. We all just need to communicate in a positive and constructive way.