NBA 2K14 - Next Gen Reveal Trailer

[jersez]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sundown

There are plenty of current gen games that have expressions better and less jarring than that in the 2k14 footage. They just need some tweaking to take out the weird expression transitions as we're approaching the uncanny valley. Kobe and Allen, however, look like some of the best renderings of humans in a video game I've seen. The shine on their heads is quite convincing. Lebron looks solid but the finish on his skin doesn't look quite on par and he looks a little "flat". The hand animations are fantastic, however. It's a small thing but they should add more shine to his (and other players') nose to really sell the illusion of solidity and skin/oil/sweat in achieving photo realism.

I'm not trying to argue, but there aren't a lot of current gen games that have facial expressions down, and if you watch the video again, you can see the small subtle muscles in Lebron face when he speaks, you can tell that video game James is coming off as cocky if you turn the volume all the way down.

Yes there are current gen games that did a good job replicating expressions but only one game had them down perfectly and that's la noire imo. And it took that studio how many years to make that game? And the 2k art team has only been working on 2k14 for what a year or two? The graphics are pretty spot on and the fact that it's pre-alpha and looks like a finish product is impressive. Some people on here aren't impressed that's cool, all I know is the graphics are amazing to me. Then again this is my opinion.

[youvalss]

I wouldn't say it looks photo realistic (or maybe it depends how you define it), but it doesn't mean graphics aren't great.

I used to think that the goal is to have the technology to create real life graphics - 1:1 as seen on TV/in reality.

But if it ever gets there - then what? Will games look the same every year? My guess is that if it gets to this point, developers will actually take a "step back" and create more artistic/stylized graphics.

I want the game look real, but I personally don't want it to look 100% real, anymore. I'd like it to play 100% real (with options to tweak it), but maybe looking 100% real isn't what I need. However, games still have some way to go, so I would like them to take this path, but just never actually get there.

That's just my opinion.

Anyway, I'm curious to see the facial expression system they implemented. Because I think previous games were getting close, but it never worked consistently. I'd like the new technology to also keep it consistent.

[jersez]

All in all, the art team put in work, they've listened to the forums fixing the jerseys,players aren't as muscular as they are in previous 2k's, skin tones are spot on, cyberfces from what was shown are really good, the graphics took a step up. It's not perfect and I'm sure they're working on it now, but I'm glad that progress is made and so far you guys have done a great job in my opinion.

[Sundown]

Quote: Originally Posted by jersez

I'm not trying to argue, but there aren't a lot of current gen games that have facial expressions down, and if you watch the video again, you can see the small subtle muscles in Lebron face when he speaks, you can tell that video game James is coming off as cocky if you turn the volume all the way down.

You actually bring up a big part of the problem. It looks better with the volume down because his expressions and moments don't quite mesh naturally with the dialogue.

I agree that the tech they showed looks pretty decent. The little muscle movements are complicated and it's nice to see them implemented.

However, artistically, it was jarring because the movements didn't seem human and didn't come in a natural flow. If it was one or the other, I'd much more prefer a simpler animation system with less exaggeration that's believable and doesn't have as much of a creepy factor.

Many, many, games accomplish this without feeling jarring and unnatural. Sometimes they use understated expressions to accomplish that and I think that's a better approach to over exaggerated ones and odd head movements and twitches especially when the subject matter is a real person.

I agree that LA Noire was one of the few to incorporate both nuanced and natural expressions.

Anyway, the tech looks good. Likely the artists just didn't kill themselves to replicate Jame's presence perfectly in a one shot promo, but the flaws are pretty evident. I just disagree that this is the height of facial expression animation in video games, where too little is probably better than too much. There are too many problems and weirdnesses to crown it that but I appreciate the effort and potential.

I am curious about the tech, whether it's a system like LA Noire's that scans expressions or if it was hand animated. I have a feeling it's the former but with a set up that's not well tuned yet. If its the latter, I can see why there might be issues as 2K hasn't been doing a lot of advance facial animations in their games and might not have the experience to crank out realistic animations quickly.

Anyway, if they have a facial scan system, I'm looking forward to seeing what else they do with it. Maybe your MyPlayer will also animate semi-realistically as acted out by the guy recording interview dialogue. Hopefully it means a lot more signature facial expressions for players, and those are more tolerant to imperfect capture than a long talking head sequence.

Tim Duncan would be perfectly captured either way. :P

[jersez]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sundown

You actually bring up a big part of the problem. It looks better with the volume down because his expressions and moments don't quite mesh naturally with the dialogue. I agree that the tech they showed looks pretty decent. The little muscle movements are complicated and it's nice to see them implemented. However, artistically, it was jarring because the movements didn't seem human and didn't come in a natural flow. If it was one or the other, I'd much more prefer a simpler animation system with less exaggeration that's believable and doesn't have as much of a creepy factor. Many, many, games accomplish this without feeling jarring and unnatural. Sometimes they use understated expressions to accomplish that and I think that's a better approach to over exaggerated ones and odd head movements and twitches especially when the subject matter is a real person. I agree that LA Noire was one of the few to incorporate both nuanced and natural expressions. Anyway, the tech looks good. Likely the artists just didn't kill themselves to replicate Jame's presence perfectly in a one shot promo, but the flaws are pretty evident. I just disagree that this is the height of facial expression animation in video games, where too little is probably better than too much. There are too many problems and weirdnesses to crown it that but I appreciate the effort and potential. I am curious about the tech, whether it's a system like LA Noire's that scans expressions or if it was hand animated. I have a feeling it's the former but with a set up that's not well tuned yet. If its the latter, I can see why there might be issues as 2K hasn't been doing a lot of advance facial animations in their games and might not have the experience to crank out realistic animations quickly. Anyway, if they have a facial scan system, I'm looking forward to seeing what else they do with it. Maybe your MyPlayer will also animate semi-realistically as acted out by the guy recording interview dialogue. Hopefully it means a lot more signature facial expressions for players, and those are more tolerant to imperfect capture than a long talking head sequence. Tim Duncan would be perfectly captured either way. :P

I agree man lol, and you pretty much sum everything up that needs fixing, but players have never talked in NBA 2k, they've yelled, screamed, showed anger, but they've never talked. So I wouldn't expect talking in 2k14. But yeah I agree the setting down scene was a off, but the "gameplay" footage was really impressive to me. Besides the puppet mouth thing.

[Boilerbuzz]

Quote: Originally Posted by KyotoCarl

Thank you. Those things sound cool but we haven't gotten a detailed explanation to as what they do. Liquid Ai sounds awesome, but what is it..

Liquid AI goes back to the days of Madden 98. It was horsesh*t marketing speak, basically.

[Rockie_Fresh88]

Hoping for realistic player movements/fundamentals above all.

I have never seen 2k this arcadey online before

[Sundown]

Quote: Originally Posted by jersez

I agree man lol, and you pretty much sum everything up that needs fixing, but players have never talked in NBA 2k, they've yelled, screamed, showed anger, but they've never talked. So I wouldn't expect talking in 2k14. But yeah I agree the setting down scene was a off, but the "gameplay" footage was really impressive to me. Besides the puppet mouth thing.

Well your my player talks, sorta.

Looking at the footage again, I'm thinking they used some sort of motion capture marker setup for Lebron, or a system that doesn't quite capture eyes well. You can see how most of his face is actually not bad, but his eyes just don't seem to sync with his brow expressions. Also he looks in random directions, which makes him seem like he doesn't understand how conversations work. Hah.

But yes, the in-game animations should be massively improved, even if they don't fix the sliding, which they better.