Madden NFL 25 Trailer - Run Free

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by Only1LT

It is entirely possible that Madden isn't in that group he's talking about. Even if it is, not sure it makes a difference. Plenty of other interactions that they have to worry about in MAdden aside from running that I don't see in Battlefield 3. Yes they run very well, but there isn't any need to cut. No need to block. No need to catch. No need to jostle. There are a plethora of things that go on in Football that do not go on in Battlefield, because in Battlefield all they need to do is run in a straight line, walk in a straight line, or crawl in a straight line, or skulk in a straight line. Who is handling all those other animations that aren't accounted for in a FPS? Tiburon? I'd attach a video of me falling out of my chair laughing, but that's most likely against TOS. I don't think Madden will be on Frostbite on next gen. At least not in its 1st iteration. Maybe not ever. Could be it's a brand new day over at EA, but the EA Sports teams have never been the most willing to partake of the fruits of non EA Sports dev teams labors. Anything is possible though. Even if they do, I still don't think that guarantees anything remotely eye pleasing or simulation-esque. IMO, they've done less with more, than any other dev team I've seen, on any game, in any genre. This goes back to the beginning of Madden and Live. Always 20 steps behind other games in the animation department, on the same hardware. I'd be more optimistic if they said the game was being developed by another EA studio. Just the way I feel.

You make some good points but I think Madden running on Frostbite is a done deal and no way I can see Madden not being in that "core group" given the heavy investments publicly touted for EA football next-gen.

In reference to a "new studio", I think that's essentially what they have done by bringing in new talent, instead of just promoting the same people from within. I don't know if you have any interest in NCAA Football but in an interview, Ben Haumiller the Producer for that game states, he's not working on the new consoles version at all, that's an entirely different team. So I imagine something similar happening with Madden on the new consoles, where Kolbe is heading up a different team. So while they may be the same core concepts in M25 for new consoles, that are in M25 on this gen, the tech, implementation and personnel could be different.

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by californ14

EA, from what I have read is pushing 10 or so titles that will be run with the Forstbite 3 engine....Ea also states that the frostbite engine is the greatest first person shooter engine around....If that is where they are focusing the engine on and what it is built for, Madden probably won't be one of the games...

Of course this is all speculation until we know for sure but read this small article, which specifically mentions EA Sports and Frostbite, tell me what you glean from it.

http://www.gamenguide.com/articles/3...l-of-honor.htm

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

You make some good points but I think Madden running on Frostbite is a done deal and no way I can see Madden not being in that "core group" given the heavy investments publicly touted for EA football next-gen. In reference to a "new studio", I think that's essentially what they have done by bringing in new talent, instead of just promoting the same people from within. I don't know if you have any interest in NCAA Football but in an interview, Ben Haumiller the Producer for that game states, he's not working on the new consoles version at all, that's an entirely different team. So I imagine something similar happening with Madden on the new consoles, where Kolbe is heading up a different team. So while they may be the same core concepts in M25 for new consoles, that are in M25 on this gen, the tech, implementation and personnel could be different.

I almost hope that next gen Madden isn't on Frostbite. Not because I care about being wrong. I don't. I just shudder at the thought of what they come up with. Might have dire repercussions on DICE lol. I'm mostly kidding.

Seriously though, there are many aspects of an engine that can be used in game development. You don't have to use them all. You could see a Madden that is on Frostbite and swear that it's in name only. They could just leverage some aspects of their lighting, their shading, or destructibility (think torn up turf).

It seems like I'm being negative. Well... that's cause I am lol. It takes more than just using a great engine to make a great game. Using an existing engine (generally) guarantees that the costs for making a game are lower, because you don't have to develop one yourself, nor spend money on the R&D of said engine. It never guarantees a good product, unfortunately.

As far as this being a wholly new team, that may or may not be true. These people who they've brought on, like Kolbe though, they aren't the CEO's of the company. They don't own the company, they were interviewed, and they were hired. They were brought on. They have bosses. Now anything is possible, but if you were hiring someone, would you hire someone who was going to totally blow up your business and start from scratch, or would you hire someone, who shared your vision generally speaking, but had a FEW new ideas about how to do things better? I don't think Google is going to hire a creative director who says we should move away from search lol.

I'm just being realistic. Regardless of what Kolbe or any of those other guys did elsewhere, I guarantee that on some level they said to who ever hired them that "I like what you are doing here". If that is the case, is it really a new direction?

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by Only1LT

I almost hope that next gen Madden isn't on Frostbite. Not because I care about being wrong. I don't. I just shudder at the thought of what they come up with. Might have dire repercussions on DICE lol. I'm mostly kidding. Seriously though, there are many aspects of an engine that can be used in game development. You don't have to use them all. You could see a Madden that is on Frostbite and swear that it's in name only. They could just leverage some aspects of their lighting, their shading, or destructibility (think torn up turf). It seems like I'm being negative. Well... that's cause I am lol. It takes more than just using a great engine to make a great game. Using an existing engine (generally) guarantees that the costs for making a game are lower, because you don't have to develop one yourself, nor spend money on the R&D of said engine. It never guarantees a good product, unfortunately. As far as this being a wholly new team, that may or may not be true. These people who they've brought on, like Kolbe though, they aren't the CEO's of the company. They don't own the company, they were interviewed, and they were hired. They were brought on. They have bosses. Now anything is possible, but if you were hiring someone, would you hire someone who was going to totally blow up your business and start from scratch, or would you hire someone, who shared your vision generally speaking, but had a FEW new ideas about how to do things better? I don't think Google is going to hire a creative director who says we should move away from search lol. I'm just being realistic. Regardless of what Kolbe or any of those other guys did elsewhere, I guarantee that on some level they said to who ever hired them that "I like what you are doing here". If that is the case, is it really a new direction?

We see the same facts so differently and that's what makes discussions so interesting. My POV on the bold is, yes you bring in someone to blow it up when what was originally being done wasn't working well enough. All those articles seem to be making the underline point of doing things differently next-gen and I think Kolbe, Frostbite, etc, are examples of that.

Again, they could have just promoted from within for the status quo, like they did in the past but instead they went out to get new blood. With Kolbe and Cam I see it more as EA going after them to turn EA football into the type of game they have done best, not them seeking out EA Tiburon to be a part of the status quo.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by Only1LT

I'm just being realistic. Regardless of what Kolbe or any of those other guys did elsewhere, I guarantee that on some level they said to who ever hired them that "I like what you are doing here". If that is the case, is it really a new direction?

My educated guess is that that line might have took place, but the candidate might have said something along the lines, I feel I could contribute more to this opportunity.

We don't know how the conversation took place.

Need to do a better job of debriefing candidates, LT. lol

Anyway, some things on paper look decent, ie pursuit angles, fatigue and separating the AP's from Dujuan Harris's of the world.

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

We see the same facts so differently and that's what makes discussions so interesting. My POV on the bold is, yes you bring in someone to blow it up when what was originally being done wasn't working well enough. All those articles seem to be making the underline point of doing things differently next-gen and I think Kolbe, Frostbite, etc, are examples of that. Again, they could have just promoted from within for the status quo, like they did in the past but instead they went out to get new blood. With Kolbe and Cam I see it more as EA going after them to turn EA football into the type of game they have done best, not them seeking out EA Tiburon to be a part of the status quo.

What isn't working though?

Is Madden not selling 5mil copies a year? Are people not spending money on MUT? Are celebs and athletes not still giving EA free publicity?

You didn't bold the part about Google hiring someone who wanted to move away from search though lol.

I'm not saying that they want to keep the status quo. I think they do want to do things differently. There is a limit though to what any rational businessman or woman would do though.

Change is great if it saves you money. Change is great if it makes you money. Change is not great if it costs you money on the expectation that it will make you money at some point... probably.

You think that they are developing all these games on Frostbite because they love gamers and want what's best for them? Um, no. They want to leverage Frostbite, because it's a great engine, yes, but because it puts more games on the fast track for less investment. It also looks good on the literature to have an engine that is used by all your studios. Now we are Epic with Unreal. Now we're Square Enix with the Luminous Engine. Now we're Konami with the Fox Engine. We're big doings.

At the end of the day, those people were hired. I don't care if it was internally or externally. They have people that they answer to. And the people that they answer to have people that they answer to. So on and so forth. Under no circumstances do I believe that those people were hired by a company after going through an interview process talking about how everything they are doing is wrong and how they will change everything if they are hired, knowing that this will obviously cost more than changing a little.

Again, I'm sure that they have ideas about what they want to do differently, but they aren't stupid. On SOME LEVEL, they had to say that they agree with at least SOME of what is currently being done, or else they would never have been hired, nor would they have ever chosen to work there in the first place. It just doesn't make any sense. They went there because they think that they are already on to something and just need that last push.

The new hires want to implement change because they think they can make a killer product with some of their ideas added to the mix. The executives want to implement change, because they want to make game making more cost efficient and expedient, which will translate into profits. Unfortunately, none of that translates, necessarily, into a total rethinking of Madden. Odds are, it is just the opposite.

Reality bites.

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

My educated guess is that that line might have took place, but the candidate might have said something along the lines, I feel I could contribute more to this opportunity. We don't know how the conversation took place. Need to do a better job of debriefing candidates, LT. lol Anyway, some things on paper look decent, ie pursuit angles, fatigue and separating the AP's from Dujuan Harris's of the world.

No doubt that is what was said. I said as much myself. But that does not translate to lets blow this baby up and start from scratch, which is IMO, what needs to be done, and what will not be done.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by Only1LT

No doubt that is what was said. I said as much myself. But that does not translate to lets blow this baby up and start from scratch, which is IMO, what needs to be done, and what will not be done.

Well, I'm sure they won't make the same mistakes in 06 making the transfer.

All eyes are upon them.