MLB 13 The Show - Operation Sports Full Minors 2013: Edition v.2 - Opening Day

[yanksdaniel99]

Quote: Originally Posted by hjgilber

A) Technically he's not below the Mendoza line. B) SSS for both Baez's poor numbers in high A last year and for Lindor's good numbers this year. Lindor is never going to hit anywhere near as much as Baez, and Baez was adjusting. He's been hitting better lately. His numbers will continue to go up. C) the defensive point mentioned by AC is legitimate and makes sense, but Baez isn't even considered a poor defensive SS. Contrary to early reports, the overwhelming majority believe Baez can stick at SS long term. He will only move if it's for Castro, not because he has to.

My god, you'll just defend Baez to the ends of the earth on this one, Lindor is the better player right now.

1) Through 39 games (162 PA) in High A, Baez is hitting exactly .200 with a .241 OBP.

2) As its been stated before, we all know Baez has a higher ceiling, its a strong 7 hit tool and strong 7 power tool, however unless the plate discipline improves, it'll never show. Lindor is a much safer bet, he's a strong 6 hit tool and a moderate 5 power but with the plate discipline, he's almost sure to get there.

3) No one said Baez is a bad defender, hes probably a 5ish type but Lindor is an elite defender, a strong 7 easily. Defensively, its not even close.

Lindor is much closer to the bigs and a much safer bet to get there.

[hjgilber]

Quote: Originally Posted by ACMilan99

I don't think anyone's said that Baez is poor defensively, it's just that Lindor is much, much better. He's really amazing at defense imho and his ratings probably reflect that. A 67 for a kid in high A as raw as Baez is pretty high.

Agree that Lindor is great on D.

Also, I'm just saying that he is also quite raw and is 6 points higher. As a prospect, I prefer Baez to Almora and Lindor, and possibly prefer him over Soler due to position, but he's the lowest rated of the 4. As long as he progresses to be the best of the 4, then I guess that's fine with me.

PS, I realize there is a chance, maybe even a good one he doesn't end up the best of the 4 (that's the nature of prospects), but if they all hit their ceilings he should be for sure the best of the group, with maybe Soler pretty close but not nearly as good due to the positions they play.

[hjgilber]

Quote: Originally Posted by yanksdaniel99

My god, you'll just defend Baez to the ends of the earth on this one, Lindor is the better player right now. 1) Through 39 games (162 PA) in High A, Baez is hitting exactly .200 with a .241 OBP. 2) As its been stated before, we all know Baez has a higher ceiling, its a strong 7 hit tool and strong 7 power tool, however unless the plate discipline improves, it'll never show. Lindor is a much safer bet, he's a strong 6 hit tool and a moderate 5 power but with the plate discipline, he's almost sure to get there. 3) No one said Baez is a bad defender, hes probably a 5ish type but Lindor is an elite defender, a strong 7 easily. Defensively, its not even close. Lindor is much closer to the bigs and a much safer bet to get there.

Again, I don't think Lindor is really closer to the bigs, they both are likely 2015 ETAs.

Also, I think saying Lindor is a 6 hit/5 power may be a little generous. It's possible but I don't know, a guy who hit .257 in A-ball, and only 6 homers in 567 PA. That seems more like a 5 hit, 4 power ceiling. He could grow into more, but I'm guessing it would be pretty hard to find hitters that had those numbers in A ball that became 6 hit/5 power.

In the end, this may be a dumb discussion to have this early. It will be clearer in June who is more progressed when more than 15 games have been played.

Both are great prospects, given they both are consensus top 20 prospects, so I'm not trying to knock either, I just prefer Baez. I guess my Baez love is well documented, but I am just very high on him and I'm guessing most GMs would take the crazy ceiling over the safe prospects when considering both are in A-ball.

Last comment: you say that Lindor is better right now, but what if his numbers go back to how he has been hitting in the past, and Baez starts to tear it up again like last year? Pretty safe to call Baez better at that point. Plus as I showed earlier, Parks has Baez as the #2 prospect in all of baseball in his prediction for next year's top 10. I just think that deserves a little more respect than he's getting on OS at the moment.

ETA: For comparison, he has Lindor #9 on his top 10 for next year.

[yanksdaniel99]

Quote: Originally Posted by hjgilber

Again, I don't think Lindor is really closer to the bigs, they both are likely 2015 ETAs. Also, I think saying Lindor is a 6 hit/5 power may be a little generous. It's possible but I don't know, a guy who hit .257 in A-ball, and only 6 homers in 567 PA. That seems more like a 5 hit, 4 power ceiling. He could grow into more, but I'm guessing it would be pretty hard to find hitters that had those numbers in A ball that became 6 hit/5 power. In the end, this may be a dumb discussion to have this early. It will be clearer in June who is more progressed when more than 15 games have been played. Both are great prospects, given they both are consensus top 20 prospects, so I'm not trying to knock either, I just prefer Baez. I guess my Baez love is well documented, but I am just very high on him and I'm guessing most GMs would take the crazy ceiling over the safe prospects when considering both are in A-ball. Last comment: you say that Lindor is better right now, but what if his numbers go back to how he has been hitting in the past, and Baez starts to tear it up again like last year? Pretty safe to call Baez better at that point. Plus as I showed earlier, Parks has Baez as the #2 prospect in all of baseball in his prediction for next year's top 10. I just think that deserves a little more respect than he's getting on OS at the moment. ETA: For comparison, he has Lindor #9 on his top 10 for next year.

Hitting .257 with 33 XBH and 61 walks as an 18 year old in full season ball is incredibly impressive, I think your underrating him.

We share the exact same opinion on Baez, I'm every bit as optimistic on him as you are. However, I don't think you realize how much his lack of plate discipline hurts him. It hasn't improved and in fact has gotten slightly worse this year, and its certainly very concerning.

Funny part of this whole thing is I was the one who originally pointed out that after rerating him I had Baez at a 73. I stand by that, my intent to have him there was so he developed on time. After reconsidering, I think anywhere from a 69-72 is mine considering the risk, I personally have him at a 70 now.

[hjgilber]

Quote: Originally Posted by yanksdaniel99

Hitting .257 with 33 XBH and 61 walks as an 18 year old in full season ball is incredibly impressive, I think your underrating him. We share the exact same opinion on Baez, I'm every bit as optimistic on him as you are. However, I don't think you realize how much his lack of plate discipline hurts him. It hasn't improved and in fact has gotten slightly worse this year, and its certainly very concerning. Funny part of this whole thing is I was the one who originally pointed out that after rerating him I had Baez at a 73. I stand by that, my intent to have him there was so he developed on time. After reconsidering, I think anywhere from a 69-72 is mine considering the risk, I personally have him at a 70 now.

I fully understand the glaring issue that is his plate discipline, I just think he will improve over time and even if he doesn't improve as much as we would hope, his other skills are so outstanding I still think he could be a pretty good player. He obviously will be best if he can figure out the discipline, that would make him scary good.

[hjgilber]

Oh and yeah, the very advanced plate approach/discipline that Lindor showed as an 18 year old is outstanding/ridiculous, I'd just like to see him do a little more with the rest of his offensive game or else he will end up as a slicker fielding Luis Valbuena. I realize that since he's only 18, there's plenty of power projection and growth potential, but I'd still like to see a higher average.

[AC]

Quote: Originally Posted by yanksdaniel99

We share the exact same opinion on Baez, I'm every bit as optimistic on him as you are.

Remember the 75 page debate on Baez in Scott's roster thread?

[yanksdaniel99]

Quote: Originally Posted by ACMilan99

Remember the 75 page debate on Baez in Scott's roster thread?

LMFAOOO I do.

Clearly, nothing has changed.