Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 14 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (PS3, 360)

[HANDSWARD_EA]

Quote: Originally Posted by simgameonly

I for one just find this an inexcusable omission.

Inexcusable... bit harsh don't you think? Especially when we are talking about a feature that was used only used 1 time for every 100,000 shots taken. And it is in every other mode except online H2H.

[DivotMaker]

Oh well...sorry you feel that the lack of a practice swing in H2H will keep you from buying the game.....

[HANDSWARD_EA]

Correction, 1 out of every 1,000,000 shots taken. Didn't do that math right the first time.

[simgameonly]

Its not going to keep my from buying the game, and I said I was appreciative of the efforts this year to take the game in a more realistic direction, and last I checked this is America where I could express my opinion, and to me its inexcusable and ruins the ability to play head to head with a buddy on the hardest difficulty, that said I am obviously in the minority my sim bias is more pronounced then the general consumer in all likelihood, thanks for answering with specifics, maybe next year

[Love13]

I just wanted to comment on the last page or so of the thread. First off, I am in no way affiliated or know anyone that has anything to do with this game. I'm just an avid player of the franchise as well as golf. That being said, I also want to thank hands and divot for some insider info, it is nice to have some feedback from a creditable source and not just speculation. I do have a question for you 2 as well I will ask later (don't wanna lose my thought lol).

As far as the last couple pages go, it seems that there is a lot of disagreement of opinions, which is awesome, it makes for some good conversation. No good thread or conversation comes from everyone having the same opinion. I have also seen passionate opinions which makes it even better. But one thing to remember is to not let emissions get to any of us. Divot and hands have relations with the dev team and they will not take people saying negative comments toward the devs which I can understand and appreciate. One thing we all need to remember (which most have it seems) is that without the hard work of the devs year in and year out we would not have a game to be discussing. Also as stated before and should be common knowledge, they are told what to work on, they don't decide what parts of the game gets attention each year. This is why some things have been left unchanged for years. Things like the iron leaves on trees etc. because it would require rewrites of program and based on overall community feedback from official forums, these things are not as big an issue as some may feel because it's simply not talked about in the forums (me personally the leaves is number 1 on my list but I've never been on the official forum so I don't feel I have room to complain). Another example of what gets attention is like was stated previously about practice swings. If a feature is only used 1 out of a million shots the devs are never going to get approval to work on something like that. Maybe next year if stats are different then it will, only time will tell.

The one thing I think everyone needs to remember ( and don't take this the wrong way, I feel passionately about yardage books and changing the leaves and a few other things) is that this is a game, and no game will ever be true sim because of 2 reasons. First and foremost, it's a game and there is only so much programming that can be done especially with a yearly title. Second of all, the part most people don't think of, this is a business. Most of us sim gamers want this as well as all other sporting titles to let go of the gimmicks (ie tiger challenge last year, legends this year, and other gimmicks in other games) because if they stop putting so much time into the new gimmick of the year, then the devs would have more time to work on the "mandatory unexuseable changes that must be made". but these gimmick modes are there to draw new comers to their respective series. So unfortunately these gimmicks will never stop. The owners and corporate execs decide what new changes, then alot so many man hours to upgrade features already there. It's sad for us sim fans but true. And frankly, even if the company could put the resources to add everything we've ever asked for and make literally the perfect game, they would purposely not do it, because if they make the perfect game then there would be no reason to buy future games. It's a business.

Another thing I've heard a few times is saying that if this were 2k these things wouldn't get left out because ea always does this. I'm sorry but it's the same stuff with 2k. People reference nba 2k the most. But that game has a lot of work to be done (I'm an avid player of that game as well since its inception) just this year anyone who played myplayer in that noticed that your contracts are 500vc/sp and your 4th year contract after winning 2 mvp's multiple championships all star every year and a 99 overall rating, the new contract is 500vc/sp. this is not "sim" it is inexcusable etc etc. sorry just had to make the point.

Now I hope everyone doesn't think I'm sticking up for devs, or divot or hands, cause I'm not. This game has a lot of work needing to be done and I'm passionate about the changes I want, but I'm a realist and understand how business works. Usually the people doing the work have a different idea of how certain things should be done then the execs or marketing department but unfortunately their hands are tied and there's nothing they can do except do what's asked and fix as much other stuff in spare time. But the devs are perfectionists so the things that are going to be advertised in marketing as changes will be done as best they can. And frankly sim mode is exactly as advertised. It was playing from a golfers perspective with NO assistants. As much as I want a yardage book, it is in fact an assistant.

I strongly encourage differing opinions, I in fact get on board with ideas I've never thought of because of the differing opinions. That being said, at first I agree with some that it felt like divot was against anyone's opinion that differed from what the devs designed, but I think since this was brought up he has done a good job of expressing that he in fact does not only understand where our opinions and complaints have come from but that he actually agrees with us on a lot of things but the issue or option was simply bigger than him and it all comes back to there is only so much they can do.

Overall, keep up the debate, just keep emotions in check, I see some getting a little heated and that is what changes a good debate and forum into a bitch feat and I'm sure no one here wants that.

I hope everyone enjoys the game when it's released and i challenge anyone who is thinking sim is lacking crucial parts to give it a try anyway. I stated yesterday I was not going to use expert swing mechanics on the kinect, but I have played all day using true sim and I'm getting better, my best round is -1 at oak hill using kinect sim. So I challenge the controller users to give it a good run before counting it as unplayable (at least for the ones who have been wanting it but it hasn't lived up to their expectations).

This leads me to my question for hands and divot. As I stated I use the kinect, I'm not sure how much you know about kinect mechanics, but I have been playing and I've figured out how to hit straight and I can hook, pull, and draw my shot, but there is no way in the world that I can figure out how to bend the ball right (fade/slice). My question is, is it possible to hit a fade or slice because it feels like its not. If I simulate a fade or slice I get a pull hook. Any mi**** I have goes left no matter how I swing. So is it possible and if so, do you know the mechanics of how to accomplish this feet?

[HANDSWARD_EA]

Nice post Love13.

Real quick, let me introduce myself. I've been posting and I'm sure several of you have no clue who I am. My name is Justin Patel. I am the Gameplay Designer for the Tiger Woods PGA TOUR Series. I have worked at EA Tiburon for 2 and a half years now. I am in charge of most of the gameplay, which includes the controller swing mechainc, all of the physics, settings, and really anything in the game that needs to be tuned. I also own several online features. I designed Connected Tournaments this year and I had a small part in Country Clubs the past 2 years. I am glad to become part of this community, as I am always looking for feedback on our game. It is a never-ending work in progress. And progress comes faster with good feedback and solid critique.

To your question, you hit the one thing that I am clueless on, Kinect. Another designer implemented it last year, and my only involvement was to let him know how to tie his parts into the physics properly. When we added Simulation this year, we pulled him off the project he had moved to so that he could re-tune the Kinect to have 5 difficulties. I have played Kinect once. So I really don;t have an answer for you. I'm sorry.

What I do know about kinect is that it is a tough device to implement. It reads at 30/fps. Which doesn;t give us a lot of data to interpret into a swing. We have to do a lot of guesswork for what you did in-between the data we do get. This isn't an issue in the lower difficulties, where it is much more forgiving. But in the higher ones it can be a challenge. I'm not sure exactly how they figured that out last year, cause when we got to that point we were well into alpha and I had a million things on my plate.

I will dig around at work tomorrow tho and try to get a solid answer for you.

[kehlis]

Quote: Originally Posted by HANDSWARD_EA

PS. I had a lengthy reply a few hours ago to an earlier post but I don't see it at all. Shame, it was a good post. I really don't feel like typing all that again.

Don't know why but our spam filter caught it for some reason, I approved it and it can be viewed where you posted it but for those who don't want to scroll up to find it I've quoted it here for all to see because I appreciate the fact that you addressed the yardage issue.

Quote: Originally Posted by HANDSWARD_EA

I agree that a top down with yardages wouldn't be a cheat. Like I said, we debated a yardage book/notebook/hole map feature but came to the conclusion that it was too much of an undertaking and didn't fit into our scope. Our current top down hole maps are not set up in any way to add to this data to them. They are merely static images. There is no size scale to them, making each one of them a unique image. To go into each and add yardages by hand to all of them would be a huge amount of work. Especially when you consider that there are 4 tee locations and 12 pin locations on each hole. We would have to have 48 versions of each hole map instead of the 1 version we use now cause of this. We did investigate what it would take to make a dynamic hole map, but it was an expensive feature. And like I mentioned before, the fact that it would only be used when 1 setting was off, definitely not worth the investment. A simpler solution that I wanted to do was provide a simple notebook that users could write into. So you could go into a course with zoom on, and scout it out. You could write down any things you felt were important about the hole and save it out in your caddie book to refer to later. (eg. 250 yards to right bunker. Expert pin has 2 yards of green to work with.) This was on the list of features early on, but complications with higher priority features slid it down to the cut list. There is nothing stopping you from taking my notebook design an doing it yourself on paper. Many users have created course guides with all sorts of notes in them through the years. I know you say you are a more casual player, so I am not sure it would be worth the time investment for you. I know the angled swing can seem difficult, but it is likely that it is more of a foreign mechanic when compared to what you are used to. With practice, it becomes much easier. If you give it enough time, I think you will get used to it and learn to enjoy the added challenge it delivers. Also, I know you are probably sick of hearing the custom settings talk. But a thing that hasn't been said much in this thread is how the Swing Style feature can help you with the difficulty of the harder modes. All of the golfers in the demo are Power Golfers. It is extremely difficult to keep the ball on target with this style. I wish we had a Control Golfer in the demo. (Hindsight is 20:20, I also had nothing to do with the demo. I would have put one in there.) A accuracy advantage you get with a Control Golfer is night and day when compared to a Power Golfer. If Tournament difficulty is a little too hard for you using Power, it might be perfect for you using Control.

Quote: Originally Posted by HANDSWARD_EA

PS. I had a lengthy reply a few hours ago to an earlier post but I don't see it at all. Shame, it was a good post. I really don't feel like typing all that again.

Personally I don't see how a "simulation" mode doesn't include yardages at all and don't really see an argument as to how it does but I appreciate the fact that you at least addressed it.

I passed on 13 and was really liking the idea of simulation mode until I got a chance to play it and found no distances.

There's a reason pro's carry yardage books and even amateurs carry sky caddies.

It's an integral part of the game and for it to be omitted from what is supposed to be the most realistic part of the game is mind boggling to me.

[Love13]

Quote: Originally Posted by HANDSWARD_EA

Nice post Love13. Real quick, let me introduce myself. I've been posting and I'm sure several of you have no clue who I am. My name is Justin Patel. I am the Gameplay Designer for the Tiger Woods PGA TOUR Series. I have worked at EA Tiburon for 2 and a half years now. I am in charge of most of the gameplay, which includes the controller swing mechainc, all of the physics, settings, and really anything in the game that needs to be tuned. I also own several online features. I designed Connected Tournaments this year and I had a small part in Country Clubs the past 2 years. I am glad to become part of this community, as I am always looking for feedback on our game. It is a never-ending work in progress. And progress comes faster with good feedback and solid critique. To your question, you hit the one thing that I am clueless on, Kinect. Another designer implemented it last year, and my only involvement was to let him know how to tie his parts into the physics properly. When we added Simulation this year, we pulled him off the project he had moved to so that he could re-tune the Kinect to have 5 difficulties. I have played Kinect once. So I really don;t have an answer for you. I'm sorry. What I do know about kinect is that it is a tough device to implement. It reads at 30/fps. Which doesn;t give us a lot of data to interpret into a swing. We have to do a lot of guesswork for what you did in-between the data we do get. This isn't an issue in the lower difficulties, where it is much more forgiving. But in the higher ones it can be a challenge. I'm not sure exactly how they figured that out last year, cause when we got to that point we were well into alpha and I had a million things on my plate. I will dig around at work tomorrow tho and try to get a solid answer for you.

Thanks hands. It seemed to be the same thing in '13. Any mi****, for me at least, goes left. And even with custom stance hitting a fade I can't get it to go right. Anything lower than tournament seemed much like the controller in the essence I felt I could do no wrong like there was no error. This is why I would like sim difficulty with it, simply for the challenge. It would just be nice to be able to hit a controlled fade, that is what I would like to create my golfer to be as that is what I hit in real life. So it makes me laugh because I hit a fade and my mi****s in real life go way right but in the game I hit a draw and my mi****s go way left lol. It's kind of fun being able to hook the hell out of the ball though since I don't do that much in real life