Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 14 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (PS3, 360)

[Zinger]

Quote: Originally Posted by globalbeats7

Too much time and effort over the years have gone into sugar coating the game while the core is left out. couple examples of the "core":

I agree with you and the points you go on to list. Another one I can think of is the way the wind behaves randomly from one hole to another, not in accord with their relative layout. And the speed with which clouds scud across the sky sometimes is plain ludicrous. The game seems to be improving over the years but there has never been enough attention to detail and getting basic things right.

[BagMan]

Quote: Originally Posted by DivotMaker

Well stated. And if I come off as too defensive wrt the Devs, that is not my intention. I do enjoy a great relationship with them and they have become friends, but none of you get a chance to see the other side of the relationship when I get to report problems with the game and then how to go about fixing those issues. HANDSWARD will tell you that myself and the other TW Mods/Game Changers are their toughest critics when it comes to the game and the direction it is going. Some of you may not believe that, but it is a fact. At the end of the day, I am not here to pat the Devs on the back, but if I see a post that criticizes them unfairly or decisions about the game direction, etc unfairly, then I think it only fair to offer another side of the story that could dispel potential confusion or misinformation. I hope everyone feels that is a fair way to approach this. If not, let me know as I am open to suggestions. Thanks to all of you for your support of the game!

Would you mind relaying Globalbeats' concerns to the devs then? because he makes some very good observations and criticisms of the core gameplay that seem to have been overlooked year after year by both the devs and TWGC.

Really basic stuff that detracts from the immersion.

Thanks

[kerosene31]

Quote: Originally Posted by HANDSWARD_EA

What's wrong with Tour Pro and why are you disappointed that you have to play it?

Since TW11, I've never found a good difficulty that offered a reasonable challenge while also offering realistic scores. I know I can customize things, but that doesn't really work online.

Maybe I'm the only one "stuck" between difficulty levels.

Tour pro is just a birdie fest. With a controller, missing the fairway is pretty much impossible for anyone who is decent at the game. I get that with forcing fade or draw on people is to try to fix that, but that doesn't feel right to me either (hitting a shot 30 degrees off center). Not having yardage is strange as well.

I guess we're maybe hit the limit of what a controller can do. I just thought TW11 with true aim was absolutely fantastic as far as a challenge and realism. You could see the hole from a top down view with relevant yardages, but you could only aim from the tee. To me that was perfect and I was sad to see it go. Again, it seems I'm the only one. I'd still be playing if it had online country clubs.

[BagMan]

Quote: Originally Posted by kerosene31

Since TW11, I've never found a good difficulty that offered a reasonable challenge while also offering realistic scores. I know I can customize things, but that doesn't really work online. Maybe I'm the only one "stuck" between difficulty levels. Tour pro is just a birdie fest. With a controller, missing the fairway is pretty much impossible for anyone who is decent at the game. I get that with forcing fade or draw on people is to try to fix that, but that doesn't feel right to me either (hitting a shot 30 degrees off center). Not having yardage is strange as well. I guess we're maybe hit the limit of what a controller can do. I just thought TW11 with true aim was absolutely fantastic as far as a challenge and realism. You could see the hole from a top down view with relevant yardages, but you could only aim from the tee. To me that was perfect and I was sad to see it go. Again, it seems I'm the only one. I'd still be playing if it had online country clubs.

I've had some pretty realistic results by :
1) limiting my golfer's attributes to 65 power and 35 everything else. The lack of power forces you to swing faster to maximize your distance, which increases your miss hits

2) change the swing stick to your least consistent hand. For me, I'm worse with the left thumb. This forces you to focus on your swing and can feel downright awkward at times when you're not in the groove.

3) no pins or spin ever

[HANDSWARD_EA]

Quote: Originally Posted by kerosene31

Since TW11, I've never found a good difficulty that offered a reasonable challenge while also offering realistic scores. I know I can customize things, but that doesn't really work online. Maybe I'm the only one "stuck" between difficulty levels. Tour pro is just a birdie fest. With a controller, missing the fairway is pretty much impossible for anyone who is decent at the game. I get that with forcing fade or draw on people is to try to fix that, but that doesn't feel right to me either (hitting a shot 30 degrees off center). Not having yardage is strange as well. I guess we're maybe hit the limit of what a controller can do. I just thought TW11 with true aim was absolutely fantastic as far as a challenge and realism. You could see the hole from a top down view with relevant yardages, but you could only aim from the tee. To me that was perfect and I was sad to see it go. Again, it seems I'm the only one. I'd still be playing if it had online country clubs.

You can customize all you want online. You have the ability to set an online H2H game with any custom settings you want. You can also create tournaments for your Country CLub with any custom settings you want.

Forcing draw fade is not intended to make the game harder. It is intended to make the game more realistic. A nice byproduct of it is that it makes it harder. I have a detailed explanation on the EA forum if you want some insight into the feature. (Uggh, I can't post links cause I'm a noob. The thread is called "Why Advanced Shot Shaping" and it can be found on the official EA forum.)

The problem with Tiger 11 True Aim was that even though you couldn't aim from that zoomed state, you could use it to aim. Whatever was in the center of the screen was what you were aimed at. IMO, that version did nothing to make the game more challenging. It just made aiming take longer.

As far as a yardage book is concerned. We have the most detailed yardage book you can find when you combine the zoom, the yardages seen in the zoom, the exact distance to the flag is given to you on every shot, and the fact that you can move an aiming marker around and get the distance to any spot on the course that you want. That being said, when zoom is off, some of this goes away. But, IMO, this is not an issue. You are still given your exact distance to the flag. You can still move your aimer around to get distances (granted it is a little more difficult to see, but it is still there). Actually implementing some sort of yardage book or notebook crossed our minds, but it was a massive undertaking for something that would have only been used when one setting was off. Not much bang for the buck there.

Most importantly on the yardage issue, is that it just isn't needed for our hardcore users, which is who Simulation mode was made for. I am one of those hardcore users. I know every one of these courses (except the new ones, which I will learn quickly) like the back of my hand. I know that the expert pin on hole 1 of St. Andrews has about 4 yards of green between it and the creek. I know that I can't hit a driver downwind on hole 9 of East Lake cause it will go into the rough. I am a yardage book. And so are any of the hardcore users you come across in Tiger.

[HANDSWARD_EA]

Quote: Originally Posted by BagMan

Would you mind relaying Globalbeats' concerns to the devs then? because he makes some very good observations and criticisms of the core gameplay that seem to have been overlooked year after year by both the devs and TWGC. Really basic stuff that detracts from the immersion. Thanks

No need, I saw it. And there were some excellent points in there. Several things that I have on my own personal list of things to change. But a few things I haven't really payed much attention to.

I've actually read through this entire thread, so don't think your posts have fallen on deaf ears.

[BagMan]

Quote: Originally Posted by HANDSWARD_EA

No need, I saw it. And there were some excellent points in there. Several things that I have on my own personal list of things to change. But a few things I haven't really payed much attention to. I've actually read through this entire thread, so don't think your posts have fallen on deaf ears.

Thanks Hands! It's nice knowing there's someone out there.

[kerosene31]

Quote: Originally Posted by HANDSWARD_EA

You can customize all you want online. You have the ability to set an online H2H game with any custom settings you want. You can also create tournaments for your Country CLub with any custom settings you want. Forcing draw fade is not intended to make the game harder. It is intended to make the game more realistic. A nice byproduct of it is that it makes it harder. I have a detailed explanation on the EA forum if you want some insight into the feature. (Uggh, I can't post links cause I'm a noob. The thread is called "Why Advanced Shot Shaping" and it can be found on the official EA forum.) The problem with Tiger 11 True Aim was that even though you couldn't aim from that zoomed state, you could use it to aim. Whatever was in the center of the screen was what you were aimed at. IMO, that version did nothing to make the game more challenging. It just made aiming take longer. As far as a yardage book is concerned. We have the most detailed yardage book you can find when you combine the zoom, the yardages seen in the zoom, the exact distance to the flag is given to you on every shot, and the fact that you can move an aiming marker around and get the distance to any spot on the course that you want. That being said, when zoom is off, some of this goes away. But, IMO, this is not an issue. You are still given your exact distance to the flag. You can still move your aimer around to get distances (granted it is a little more difficult to see, but it is still there). Actually implementing some sort of yardage book or notebook crossed our minds, but it was a massive undertaking for something that would have only been used when one setting was off. Not much bang for the buck there. Most importantly on the yardage issue, is that it just isn't needed for our hardcore users, which is who Simulation mode was made for. I am one of those hardcore users. I know every one of these courses (except the new ones, which I will learn quickly) like the back of my hand. I know that the expert pin on hole 1 of St. Andrews has about 4 yards of green between it and the creek. I know that I can't hit a driver downwind on hole 9 of East Lake cause it will go into the rough. I am a yardage book. And so are any of the hardcore users you come across in Tiger.

The yardage is already included in the game (at least in the demo). What is shown on tour pro difficulty is more than enough information. On that difficulty, it isn't needed at all because you just use the aiming anyway. On harder difficulties, it would actually be useful. That's great that you memorize every inch of every course. While I've enjoyed the TW series for years now, it obviously isn't the only game I play. I guess that makes me a casual. Personally I don't think a top down view of the hole with some basic yardages is a "cheat" or something unrealistic that a real pro wouldn't have with a caddy. Just my opinion though.

Custom difficulty is great (yes, people keep reminding me it is there needlessly). What are the odds I find a group who want similar settings? It seems to me most people are going to play sim, or one of the lower difficulties. Not saying it is impossible, but obviously I'm not in the majority.

Also, including the shot shaping in tour pro is a little weird too. I can either hit my easy straight shot, or go into hard mode to put a few yards of draw on the ball? I may as well just bump up to tournament and force myself to learn the harder swing in the first place.