Clint Oldenburg Explains the Strength Rating For Linemen in Madden

[DCEBB2001]

I must say that I disagree with how STR is measured and evaluated with EA currently. As you guys know for the FBG Ratings project I have brought in consultants in biomechanics from the University of Minnesota and statisticians from Texas A&M University for my project.

I was told from the guys at UM that strength is the overall capability of a player to exert maximum force during a single effort. The 1-rep-max is by far the best way to measure this for the 2 core lifts; bench press and back squat.

Power, on the other hand, is the ability to exert force at higher speeds in a vector. The core lift to measure power is the power clean.

Now, after reading this article, it seems to me that what they are referring to is not really static strength, but how static strength is APPLIED on the field. Isn't that what the BSH/RBS/PBS/TRK/SFA abilities are for? To tell us how well a player UTILIZES his strength ABILITY? That is...how well the player reaches his POTENTIAL for exerting maximum force?

What is so darn maddening about how EA does this is that I didn't have to pay thousands of dollars to get this information from experts in biomechanics! If I can do it, and find the experts in the field to give educated opinions, why can't EA!? I know why they brought Clint in, but he is not an expert in biomechanics and it seems to me that the guys at EA are clearly not defining their terms correctly, nor are utilizing them properly.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by slick589

Speed kills in the NFL but in madden it can win you games no matter how bad a player is rated in positional attributes

That never works for me. I've read it often, and have had no success. I'll get more out of slower WR with better hands and feet than the speed guys who can only run fast.

Jacoby Ford is trash for me and he's very quick and fast. Meanwhile, Marcel Reece as a TE is far more reliable with 7 less SPD.

Taiwan Jones is equally bad. Yet, Caulder, 8 points slower, is far better with only 70 AWR.

Fast WR with crap RTE and RLS don't get open fast enough. If their catch sucks, they'll drop what's thrown them (DHB literally dropped 57% of ball thrown at him before I had enough, and, yes, I tracked it).

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by DCEBB2001

Now, after reading this article, it seems to me that what they are referring to is not really static strength, but how static strength is APPLIED on the field. Isn't that what the BSH/RBS/PBS/TRK/SFA abilities are for? To tell us how well a player UTILIZES his strength ABILITY? That is...how well the player reaches his POTENTIAL for exerting maximum force?

They are - but they are not measures of his actual raw power. I think that's what the game is trying to go for.

Take one of those body builder types - he'd probably have 99 STR. But could he block Jared Allen? That's what I would envision 99 STR, 12 PBK as being. He can pull an airplane, but has no skill and stopping a pass rusher, no base, no kick step, no ability to disrupt the rusher's balance, no ability to read the arc and adapt, etc.

I think what they tried for was a combo approach. Take good run blocking technique and assignment knowledge and combine it with that pull-an-airplane guy, and you have a monster run blocker. He has the strength (99 STR) and knows how to use it (99 RBK).

Someone who knows how to run block, but might be a WR, could have high RBK, but not as much raw power (lower STR). He'll probably be better with cut blocks and such.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I think that's the aim they were shooting for.

[GiantBlue76]

Quote: Originally Posted by DCEBB2001

I must say that I disagree with how STR is measured and evaluated with EA currently. As you guys know for the FBG Ratings project I have brought in consultants in biomechanics from the University of Minnesota and statisticians from Texas A&M University for my project. I was told from the guys at UM that strength is the overall capability of a player to exert maximum force during a single effort. The 1-rep-max is by far the best way to measure this for the 2 core lifts; bench press and back squat. Power, on the other hand, is the ability to exert force at higher speeds in a vector. The core lift to measure power is the power clean. Now, after reading this article, it seems to me that what they are referring to is not really static strength, but how static strength is APPLIED on the field. Isn't that what the BSH/RBS/PBS/TRK/SFA abilities are for? To tell us how well a player UTILIZES his strength ABILITY? That is...how well the player reaches his POTENTIAL for exerting maximum force? What is so darn maddening about how EA does this is that I didn't have to pay thousands of dollars to get this information from experts in biomechanics! If I can do it, and find the experts in the field to give educated opinions, why can't EA!? I know why they brought Clint in, but he is not an expert in biomechanics and it seems to me that the guys at EA are clearly not defining their terms correctly, nor are utilizing them properly.

But remember? This is somehow the "suits'" fault, not the incredibly inept developers working on this game. You know, kind of like how in season 3 of our CCM, we are now repeating the exact same schedule as in season 1.

I lost IQ points by reading that article.

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

So all it does is determine maintenance of the block, not the movement or push that a lineman can get...? So a 99 STR LT vs a 30 STR DB is not going to push the DB around, just make it hard for the DB to get away? STR certainly seems to impact pancakes...the top 2 pancakers on my OL are my monster of a LG (97 STR), and my equally menacing RG (95 STR). It's not even close. LG has 19, RG has 21. So if it's not STR that's doing it, what is? And, yeah, King, the game play with the LT/RT is so backwards. It's insane. They have a guy who played and knows OL on staff and it's STILL backwards. Go figure, huh.

Which IMO is dumb but that's why we see that mess in the game. I had a game the other night where a corner stood up an offensive tackle shed the block and made a play on Ray Rice in the backfield What governs pancakes? One would think it has to be impact block. But the Impact block was also in the high 90's and the DB still stood him up, got off the block and made a tackle in the backfield.

[LBzrule]

Also, what defensive ratings correspond to the offensive ratings to determine that that CB is going to get off the block and make a play in the back field?

Other questions:

In CC I purchase all of these traits for my linemen and linebackers. Spin move, swim move, bull rush, max out their consistency and I see no difference in their play whatsoever. Can't be strength for DL because Ngata has 99 strength and he isn't performing any moves.

[youALREADYknow]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

Which IMO is dumb but that's why we see that mess in the game. I had a game the other night where a corner stood up an offensive tackle shed the block and made a play on Ray Rice in the backfield What governs pancakes? One would think it has to be impact block. But the Impact block was also in the high 90's and the DB still stood him up, got off the block and made a tackle in the backfield.

And this is the sort of common sense logic we have been complaining about for years.

[AndrewGW88]

This would explain why we see DTs get the majority of the pressure on default sliders.