Madden 13: What Is Your Offensive Style?

[RogueHominid]

What playbook or playbooks best mimic the Jimmy Johnson era Cowboys? I remember lots of lead iso plays, powers, and off tackles, but not much gun (if any).

Any recommendations? I'm thinking of trying to rebuild the team to that era's specifications.

[KingV2k3]

Quote: Originally Posted by JMP

What playbook or playbooks best mimic the Jimmy Johnson era Cowboys? I remember lots of lead iso plays, powers, and off tackles, but not much gun (if any). Any recommendations? I'm thinking of trying to rebuild the team to that era's specifications.

Food for thought:


Norv Turner
The man who steered Jimmy Johnson's offense around the corner, through the parking lot, and into the champions lounge, Turner was a protege of Ernie Zampese, who in turn was a protege of Don Coryell (Coryell passed on in the Summer 2010). The Coryell offense is predicated on two main principles; power running and fast receivers threatening the defense in the mid and long range passing game. The quarterback generally remains in the pocket to throw the pigskin, which requires a strong arm. With that as his base discipline, can you imagine how ecstatic Turner must have been getting the call to teach it to Troy Aikman, Michael Irvin, Emmitt Smith and Alvin Harper?

From Wikipedia:

It is a very sound, QB friendly scheme that favors taking controlled chances, like quicker midrange post passes to WRs off play action rather than slower developing passes that leave QBs exposed. It is almost exclusively run out of the pro set. Turner favors a more limited palette of plays than Coryell and most other Coryell disciples, instead insisting on precise execution. His offenses are usually towards the top of the league standings, but are often labeled predictable.

His offenses tend to include a strong running game, a #1 WR who can stretch the field and catch jump balls in the end-zone, a good receiving TE to attack the space the WRs create in the middle of the field and a FB who fills the role of a lead blocker and a final option as an outlet receiver. In Dallas, Turner made RB Emmitt Smith & WR Michael Irvin Hall of Famers, and TE Jay Novacek a five time pro bowler.


I kind of think the Gibbs book might meet these specs...

He was also in the Gilman / Coryell coaching tree and implemented a variation on that O philosophy...

2 TEs / Small Quick WRs / Power Run / No Gun

[RogueHominid]

Quote: Originally Posted by KingV2k3

Food for thought: Norv Turner The man who steered Jimmy Johnson's offense around the corner, through the parking lot, and into the champions lounge, Turner was a protege of Ernie Zampese, who in turn was a protege of Don Coryell (Coryell passed on in the Summer 2010). The Coryell offense is predicated on two main principles; power running and fast receivers threatening the defense in the mid and long range passing game. The quarterback generally remains in the pocket to throw the pigskin, which requires a strong arm. With that as his base discipline, can you imagine how ecstatic Turner must have been getting the call to teach it to Troy Aikman, Michael Irvin, Emmitt Smith and Alvin Harper? From Wikipedia: It is a very sound, QB friendly scheme that favors taking controlled chances, like quicker midrange post passes to WRs off play action rather than slower developing passes that leave QBs exposed. It is almost exclusively run out of the pro set. Turner favors a more limited palette of plays than Coryell and most other Coryell disciples, instead insisting on precise execution. His offenses are usually towards the top of the league standings, but are often labeled predictable. His offenses tend to include a strong running game, a #1 WR who can stretch the field and catch jump balls in the end-zone, a good receiving TE to attack the space the WRs create in the middle of the field and a FB who fills the role of a lead blocker and a final option as an outlet receiver. In Dallas, Turner made RB Emmitt Smith & WR Michael Irvin Hall of Famers, and TE Jay Novacek a five time pro bowler. I kind of think the Gibbs book might meet these specs... He was also in the Gilman / Coryell coaching tree and implemented a variation on that O philosophy... 2 TEs / Small Quick WRs / Power Run / No Gun

I love you for this, in a strictly platonic way. We need more discussion like this.

I recall the DAL offense then as driven by lead ISO plays with Moose paving the way, Irvin running his trademark 12-yard skinny post, and Alvin Harper stretching the field while Novaceck lurked in the middle.

Gibbs's book is dominated by single back formations, which would lessen the Moose role, but I like the other principles.

I'd also like to change the defensive philosophy to match his SB era one. I remember the Haley-esque rush guy (Ware's perfect), the Prototype DTs (like Leon Lett and Russell Maryland), the Run Stopper MLB (Ken Norton), and then pure speed, Prototype OLBs whose job was mostly just to cover ground.

In the backfield, I felt like they were a zone team until Deion came around, but I don't recall much about how their backfield operated schematically. What do you know about that King? And what kind of personnel/scheme would you suggest?

Once again, this is great!

[RogueHominid]

As a followup, Vermeil's playbook actually looks really useful for replicating that kind of offense. There are 11 I Form sets and 10 Single Back sets to go with just 3 Gun sets. The passes have a nice range of short, medium, and some deep shots, they involve the TE, and they have the signature leads, powers, and off tackle's that I recall being part of that offense.

[KingV2k3]

Quote: Originally Posted by JMP

I love you for this, in a strictly platonic way. We need more discussion like this. I recall the DAL offense then as driven by lead ISO plays with Moose paving the way, Irvin running his trademark 12-yard skinny post, and Alvin Harper stretching the field while Novaceck lurked in the middle. Gibbs's book is dominated by single back formations, which would lessen the Moose role, but I like the other principles. I'd also like to change the defensive philosophy to match his SB era one. I remember the Haley-esque rush guy (Ware's perfect), the Prototype DTs (like Leon Lett and Russell Maryland), the Run Stopper MLB (Ken Norton), and then pure speed, Prototype OLBs whose job was mostly just to cover ground. In the backfield, I felt like they were a zone team until Deion came around, but I don't recall much about how their backfield operated schematically. What do you know about that King? And what kind of personnel/scheme would you suggest? Once again, this is great!

Thanks for the props, sir!

Here's an article about their defense at that time:

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2011/...ensive-schemes

It's a 4-3 Over, so I'd scheme it as Attacking 4-3 (morso than simple "Base")...

You might also want to look at the Flores O Book...

He's also WCO / No Gun and might have more FB forms...

I did a breakdown of the Legend books in post #161 in this thread:

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...ne-ccm-10.html

Other than Landry and (of course) Lombardi, all the Legend books have roots in Gilman / Air Coryell / WCO...

They all just have their "variations"...

My take (for your purposes re: DAL in the Johnson era) are that Gibbs and possibly Flores would make the closet approximation...

Flores is going to be a little more "Vertical" and Gibbs is going to be more "Zone Run"...

Let me know what you decide...

Cool concept...

I personally am trying to go "Air Coryell / Vert / Spread / Power Run" out of the Vermeil Book with a Spread Scheme and have the perfect young "triplets" for that in CLE with the strong armed Weeden / Power Back T. Rich / and Gibbs like "Smurfs" in Benjamin and Norwood, with a Vert TE (Watson) and a beast in the slot (Gordon)...

Yeah, this is the kind of crap that makes me a happy football gamer...

[RogueHominid]

Quote: Originally Posted by KingV2k3

Thanks for the props, sir! Here's an article about their defense at that time: http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2011/...ensive-schemes It's a 4-3 Over, so I'd scheme it as Attacking 4-3 (morso than simple "Base")... You might also want to look at the Flores O Book... He's also WCO / No Gun and might have more FB forms... I did a breakdown of the Legend books in post #161 in this thread: http://www.operationsports.com/forum...ne-ccm-10.html Other than Landry and (of course) Lombardi, all the Legend books have roots in Gilman / Air Coryell / WCO... They all just have their "variations"... My take (for your purposes re: DAL in the Johnson era) are that Gibbs and possibly Flores would make the closet approximation... Flores is going to be a little more "Vertical" and Gibbs is going to be more "Zone Run"... Let me know what you decide... Cool concept... I personally am trying to go "Air Coryell / Vert / Spread / Power Run" out of the Vermeil Book with a Spread Scheme and have the perfect young "triplets" for that in CLE with the strong armed Weeden / Power Back T. Rich / and Gibbs like "Smurfs" in Benjamin and Norwood, with a Vert TE (Watson) and a beast in the slot (Gordon)... Yeah, this is the kind of crap that makes me a happy football gamer...

Very nice. Yeah, it's going to be a tough decision on offense. I love the Gibbs I sets, but I like the overall versatility of Flores's set. Did DAL run much split, near and far in those days? All I remember is I formations.

The Over 43 looks like it's limited as a base defense in the attacking 43 books. There are lots of zone blitzes and man blitzes, but not a lot of in-between straight man or straight zone concepts. I don't remember them being a blitzing team, but it's been a while.

Oh how the mind slips with age.

[HadlerT]

I definitely go about 50/50 with some games where I pass a little bit more. But I definitely use West Coast play style when passing. I look for a QB with 70-79 SPD and 80+ SAC & MAC

[KingV2k3]

Quote: Originally Posted by JMP

Very nice. Yeah, it's going to be a tough decision on offense. I love the Gibbs I sets, but I like the overall versatility of Flores's set. Did DAL run much split, near and far in those days? All I remember is I formations. The Over 43 looks like it's limited as a base defense in the attacking 43 books. There are lots of zone blitzes and man blitzes, but not a lot of in-between straight man or straight zone concepts. I don't remember them being a blitzing team, but it's been a while. Oh how the mind slips with age.

I don't recall exactly how much non I Form 2 Back sets were used, but Split / Near / Far are all WC concepts, so it serves two purposes for you...

Gets "Moose 2.0" on the field (you can prob motion into I for some plays) and secondly (prob) has more to offer for your "Irvin"...

On the other hand, one of the two TEs in the Twin Sets of Gibbs world was more of an H Back, which could be fun to motion around...

I'd have to take a closer look, but I think you're going to see more Vertical concepts in Flores and more Horizontal Crossing Routes in Flores...

I find when you compare the two in practice mode, you find the books that suits YOU pretty quick...

I think the 4-3 Over is more of a Man D where the Over Linebacker is the most likely to blitz...

All the available options are pretty "vanilla", so I think it's more what you call / who you use / how you shift / in various situations, etc...

Here's an article where Chip Kelly talks about how Johnson used undersized players and played them out of position, yet had a stellar run D:

http://igglesblitz.com/philadelphia-...lk-chip-kelly/