NBA 2K13 Complete Player Ratings and Classic Teams

[AgentQ16]

Quote: Originally Posted by VDusen04

I think you may have misinterpreted what I was saying here. Five of the classic teams added by 2K in NBA 2K12 were the 2002 Sacramento Kings, the 1987 Los Angeles Lakers, the 1985 76ers, the 1977 76ers and the 1971 Milwaukee Bucks. Among them, well over 40 individual classic players were accounted for, including an extremely high percentage of regular rotation players. Even in 2K12, people were left a little flummoxed with the inclusion of the '85 Sixers, for without Charles Barkley it seems as if they would have been better off making an '83 team. The presumption was 2K may have been on the verge of signing Barkley or believed they could sign him, thus leading to a preemptive classic Sixers squad. Then, Barkley's absence, combined with Andrew Toney's, made for a pretty empty classic team. Each of the other teams mentioned though, were mostly only missing 9-12th men - the Mateen Cleaves and Marv Winkler's of the world. As such, we were pretty solid on that front. I had to create my own Chucky Brown? So be it. It was still a pretty full set of five awesome classic teams. Now we have NBA 2K13 on the horizon. All signs point toward a few big stars bowing out for the new edition: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Chris Webber, and Julius Erving. All the teams these players were a part of, were already created last year by 2K, when the rosters (except for the '85 squad) were mostly full. I'm saying, I'm glad 2K at least decided to retain the rosters and teams they put together last year and didn't pull a jerk move of unnecessarily pulling them out just because a few stars didn't sign. Even without the three mentioned, those teams still account for 40 classic players. It seems it would have taken more work to eliminate those teams from the game than it would have to keep them in just in case folks opted to create the missing stars and fill out the squads again (which I'm certain scores of gamers most definitely will do). Point being, it's not as if 2K's just saying, "Hey, we can't get the rights to Alex English, Kiki Vandeweghe, or Fat Lever. Let's make a 1988 Nuggets team anyway." The teams we're talking about were full (again, except for the '85 Sixers) and instead of randomly ridding of all those other players who played on those teams (Darryl Dawkins, Joe Dandridge, Oscar Robertson, and Kurt Rambis among them), 2K kept them around because they figured if they made them last year and they still had them, why not share them with us in spite of the superstars apparently deciding to not sign back on again? It would have been cool to have the Chris Webber back on that '02 Kings squad again this year. But now, since 2K didn't axe the team they'd already put together, I'm just one solid Chris Webber create-a-player away from having a full team again. And I'd much rather have that than having to create 8 Kings myself and then use them on the modern Kings court, having to pretend they're using the early 2000's floor.

The problem you don't acknowledge is that those of us who are more interested in the classic teams want them "complete" not just for offline play, but most importantly, ONLINE play. And last time I checked, created players/custom rosters are NOT an option when playing online. So, the whole point of classic teams without Dr. J or Kareem, etc. gets seriously diluted when we want to use those teams online. I'll pass this year solely because that is THE feature my buddies and I wanted this year.

[Streaky McFloorburn]

Quote: Originally Posted by VDusen04

I think you may have misinterpreted what I was saying here. Five of the classic teams added by 2K in NBA 2K12 were the 2002 Sacramento Kings, the 1987 Los Angeles Lakers, the 1985 76ers, the 1977 76ers and the 1971 Milwaukee Bucks. Among them, well over 40 individual classic players were accounted for, including an extremely high percentage of regular rotation players. Even in 2K12, people were left a little flummoxed with the inclusion of the '85 Sixers, for without Charles Barkley it seems as if they would have been better off making an '83 team. The presumption was 2K may have been on the verge of signing Barkley or believed they could sign him, thus leading to a preemptive classic Sixers squad. Then, Barkley's absence, combined with Andrew Toney's, made for a pretty empty classic team. Each of the other teams mentioned though, were mostly only missing 9-12th men - the Mateen Cleaves and Marv Winkler's of the world. As such, we were pretty solid on that front. I had to create my own Chucky Brown? So be it. It was still a pretty full set of five awesome classic teams. Now we have NBA 2K13 on the horizon. All signs point toward a few big stars bowing out for the new edition: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Chris Webber, and Julius Erving. All the teams these players were a part of, were already created last year by 2K, when the rosters (except for the '85 squad) were mostly full. I'm saying, I'm glad 2K at least decided to retain the rosters and teams they put together last year and didn't pull a jerk move of unnecessarily pulling them out just because a few stars didn't sign. Even without the three mentioned, those teams still account for 40 classic players. It seems it would have taken more work to eliminate those teams from the game than it would have to keep them in just in case folks opted to create the missing stars and fill out the squads again (which I'm certain scores of gamers most definitely will do). Point being, it's not as if 2K's just saying, "Hey, we can't get the rights to Alex English, Kiki Vandeweghe, or Fat Lever. Let's make a 1988 Nuggets team anyway." The teams we're talking about were full (again, except for the '85 Sixers) and instead of randomly ridding of all those other players who played on those teams (Darryl Dawkins, Joe Dandridge, Oscar Robertson, and Kurt Rambis among them), 2K kept them around because they figured if they made them last year and they still had them, why not share them with us in spite of the superstars apparently deciding to not sign back on again? It would have been cool to have the Chris Webber back on that '02 Kings squad again this year. But now, since 2K didn't axe the team they'd already put together, I'm just one solid Chris Webber create-a-player away from having a full team again. And I'd much rather have that than having to create 8 Kings myself and then use them on the modern Kings court, having to pretend they're using the early 2000's floor.

I understand the reasons why things are the way they are, and I agree that having what remains of the 84-85 Sixers is not inherently a bad thing. However, I still feel that it is a problem to have a team with no competitive usefulness (and not in the way that the worst current team in the NBA arguably has) as currently constructed. All of the new elements that were added to 2k13 to increase realism are working against this team; sig skills which the CAP roster fillers won't have, increased fatigue which will necessitate playing those CAPs, etc. Correct me if I'm wrong about how replacing those players works, but it could also be a problem to have to put 6 more John Browns into the FA pool to fix the team, rather than 1-3.
If they could give us the rest of the real bench players it would be easier to work with, or editable CAPs with the proper ratings/sigs but different names/faces for the missing stars.

I appreciate what you're saying, and my intent is not to get the team removed at this point. Even when expressing frustration, I'd like to offer something constructive. It's just at this point, I don't know if there's anything that can be done, and I don't know if there's any precedent for this particular situation, there's simply no comparison between teams missing 1 key player, and this one which is missing 3 of them, and 6 total. I know that the devs probably find it as unacceptable as I do, and that if they could do something about it, they would. For all I know, they already have, and I'm hopeful that one of my favorite teams won't be one that I have to intentionally overlook.

[Bobcat8]

MKG DEFINETELY needs finisher..His defense should be up to par too. Glad they gave Bismack the respect he needed. Although I shouldn't be complaining about this, Tyrus Thomas is rated a little too high..should be in the 60's.. He averaged 5 and 3 last year..

[VDusen04]

Quote: Originally Posted by AgentQ16

The problem you don't acknowledge is that those of us who are more interested in the classic teams want them "complete" not just for offline play, but most importantly, ONLINE play. And last time I checked, created players/custom rosters are NOT an option when playing online. So, the whole point of classic teams without Dr. J or Kareem, etc. gets seriously diluted when we want to use those teams online. I'll pass this year solely because that is THE feature my buddies and I wanted this year.

Yeah, you're certainly correct regarding the use of these teams online. There's a lot of things that are lost in the shuffle when it comes to online play. Users can't fill in roster blanks, they can't adjust ratings, they can't correct accessories, they can't change signature moves and they can't give classic players authentic shoes. All of those facts would bother me greatly if I played online, so I understand where you're coming from.

Again though, my point was simply that it'd have made less sense for 2K to go out of their way to remove the 40 other classic players (and the five teams) than to leave them in the game, in case people like me still opted to create or download their own Chris Webber and run with the '02 Kings once more. Will they be useless for online play? Pretty much. Would that warrant removing them so people offline couldn't make them work? I do not believe so. But I feel your pain.

Quote: Originally Posted by Streaky McFloorburn

I understand the reasons why things are the way they are, and I agree that having what remains of the 84-85 Sixers is not inherently a bad thing. However, I still feel that it is a problem to have a team with no competitive usefulness (and not in the way that the worst current team in the NBA arguably has) as currently constructed. All of the new elements that were added to 2k13 to increase realism are working against this team; sig skills which the CAP roster fillers won't have, increased fatigue which will necessitate playing those CAPs, etc. Correct me if I'm wrong about how replacing those players works, but it could also be a problem to have to put 6 more John Browns into the FA pool to fix the team, rather than 1-3. If they could give us the rest of the real bench players it would be easier to work with, or editable CAPs with the proper ratings/sigs but different names/faces for the missing stars. I appreciate what you're saying, and my intent is not to get the team removed at this point. Even when expressing frustration, I'd like to offer something constructive. It's just at this point, I don't know if there's anything that can be done, and I don't know if there's any precedent for this particular situation, there's simply no comparison between teams missing 1 key player, and this one which is missing 3 of them, and 6 total. I know that the devs probably find it as unacceptable as I do, and that if they could do something about it, they would. For all I know, they already have, and I'm hopeful that one of my favorite teams won't be one that I have to intentionally overlook.

I will agree that, as currently constructed, the '85 76ers are pretty much useless. And for me, the same could be said for any classic team missing its star. However, and maybe this depends upon which system we're using and what modes we play, but as an XBox gamer who does not play online, there are often many created legends who look wonderful and certainly pass as the actual player.

For instance, in 2K12, I used a '93 Suns team that featured an authentic version of nearly every player on the roster except for Charles Barkley, but the excellent job someone did creating a Chuck, combined with the authentic shoes, accessories and jerseys of that Suns squad, allowed me to more or less convince myself he was the real thing.

Further, I don't have confirmation, but I thought I may have heard that signature skills can in fact be given to created players (I vaguely recall a poster stating that's the only thing that's changed with the create-a-player this year). Further, I don't actually believe the fatigue will be forcing teams down into their 9-12th men on a regular basis. The game will still feature "rotation" subs so if I really don't want to see Chucky Brown on the floor, chances are giving him zero minutes will probably still make that happen, even if Vlade is dead tired. Also, I think the number of generics in the free agent pool won't really make a difference. I'm pretty sure I had droves of minimally rated John Brown's in the free agent pool last year, so a few more likely won't hurt.

With all that said, I'm glad we can agree that 2K likely didn't just randomly choose to screw over the '85 76ers of all teams. I'm certain they would have loved to retain Julius Erving and have the rights to use Barkley as well (not to mention Andrew Toney). It sucks having a shelled 76ers team. And to be real, if they were never in 2K12 and 2K randomly just decided to add them from scratch this year without having the rights to Erving, Barkley, or Toney, it'd be strange and it'd make no sense. But if they happen to have 5 of the 8 rotation guys just hanging around and a classic court already made, I say you might as well leave them just in case we want to make it happen.

Even with created players, I was still satisfied with a lot of my results in 2K12. Sure, from a close up at the free throw line, we could all definitively say, "That's not Chuck." But when he's running the floor from Broadcast Cam, I can be a believer:

[daveberg]

Has it actually been confirmed by staff working for 2K that these guys will not be in the game this year?

[VDusen04]

Quote: Originally Posted by daveberg

Has it actually been confirmed by staff working for 2K that these guys will not be in the game this year?

I wouldn't really expect a confirmation from 2K as to who isn't included in the game this year. I think we're all just going off the Best Buy video (since pulled) not showing either of those three players near the top of the roster screen for each of their respective teams.

[JazzMan]

I've heard that Gordon Hayward doesn't have any sig skills... How is this possible? He was a highlight film with his chase down blocks last year, and he's an excellent shooter. So how does Wade get Dead Eye and Hayward doesn't?

[chronoxiong]

Wait a minute, the 2001-02 Kings team is in this game? Holy cow Batman!!!! I really need to get this game!!!!