NHL 13 Video - Sean Ramjagsingh Talks About Presentation, Gameplay, Strategies & More

[bwiggy33]

With some of you talking about how this is the 7th title for 360 it brings me to a Question for you guys (No this is not an EA bashing, it's a serious question): Do you think NHL has really done a great job at improving from year to year since they began with NHL 07 for 360?

IMO I really think they could have been way more productive. I believe this new AI and strategies could have been done in NHL 09. I highly doubt that the programming for AI has changed from 09 to 13. AI is probably the one consistent "code" they work with. It's not like them having to build new code for the skating revamp they did this year, which has probably been a process that they've done for the past couple years. I'm not calling EA lazy because I don't know what goes on behind the scenes, their budget, how many workers they have, etc. However, I just think they could be so much further along at this point. I mean correct me if I'm wrong but truly we can name about 1 major thing they've done from NHL 08 to NHL 12 that doesn't include Online play. That major thing is physics (which still need improving). It's truly the only groundbreaking thing they've done over that span.

Other than that it's been small things and tuning (which isn't a bad thing) to what had already been in the game, which IMO is what made this game so stale. Things like broken sticks, broken glass, 1st person fighting, board play, and the list can go on. Overall though they really haven't made any significant gameplay improvements at all since the introduction of the skill stick in 07. Hell even EA admitted that themselves. I can only imagine where this game could be had EA implemented better AI back in 09 or even 10 (the AI would probably be spot on in NHL 13) and put other big things in the game that just can change the game in a big way. I understand that putting "big" features in a game is time consuming and could take a couple years to do, but ultimately I think we could have seen more from EA.

I believe the plan or lack there of that they had in place just wasn't very good. They didn't know which direction or what ideas they wanted to go with. I will also bring up the point that they got comfortable. They won sports game of the year and 2k fizzled out so they just said "we don't have to change anything." I think they finally realized with the complaints about 12 that they better make big improvements otherwise they were going to lose money.

Also google NHL 08-12 and go to wikipedia to see the different features for the games. It's actually astonishing how many little idiotic things they've added and used as "Big" features for their games.

What is your guys take on it?

[jonapaloma]

Quote: Originally Posted by bwiggy33

With some of you talking about how this is the 7th title for 360 it brings me to a Question for you guys (No this is not an EA bashing, it's a serious question): Do you think NHL has really done a great job at improving from year to year since they began with NHL 07 for 360? IMO I really think they could have been way more productive. I believe this new AI and strategies could have been done in NHL 09. I highly doubt that the programming for AI has changed from 09 to 13. AI is probably the one consistent "code" they work with. It's not like them having to build new code for the skating revamp they did this year, which has probably been a process that they've done for the past couple years. I'm not calling EA lazy because I don't know what goes on behind the scenes, their budget, how many workers they have, etc. However, I just think they could be so much further along at this point. I mean correct me if I'm wrong but truly we can name about 1 major thing they've done from NHL 08 to NHL 12 that doesn't include Online play. That major thing is physics (which still need improving). It's truly the only groundbreaking thing they've done over that span. Other than that it's been small things and tuning (which isn't a bad thing) to what had already been in the game, which IMO is what made this game so stale. Things like broken sticks, broken glass, 1st person fighting, board play, and the list can go on. Overall though they really haven't made any significant gameplay improvements at all since the introduction of the skill stick in 07. Hell even EA admitted that themselves. I can only imagine where this game could be had EA implemented better AI back in 09 or even 10 (the AI would probably be spot on in NHL 13) and put other big things in the game that just can change the game in a big way. I understand that putting "big" features in a game is time consuming and could take a couple years to do, but ultimately I think we could have seen more from EA. I believe the plan or lack there of that they had in place just wasn't very good. They didn't know which direction or what ideas they wanted to go with. I will also bring up the point that they got comfortable. They won sports game of the year and 2k fizzled out so they just said "we don't have to change anything." I think they finally realized with the complaints about 12 that they better make big improvements otherwise they were going to lose money. Also google NHL 08-12 and go to wikipedia to see the different features for the games. It's actually astonishing how many little idiotic things they've added and used as "Big" features for their games. What is your guys take on it?

I think alot of the causes are...

Money! Even though I can understand it, its not good for us gamers, I think. They want to make as much money as possible on the franchise. Just look at the movie industry, all these sequels and remakes.

[acelang123]

Quote: Originally Posted by mercalnd

Actually, we are in year 8 of this console cycle. The cycle started in 2005 with the release of the XBOX 360. As far as the NHL series goes, NHL 13 is the seventh release on these consoles.

You're right, I forgot 360 was out way before PS3.

[RealmK]

Bwigs, it comes down to budget. NHL more than likely has the smallest budget across the entire EA Sports label, you have to make due with what you can in a situation like that and make sure your major features that you're continually working on are as solid as possible before implementing them in a retail build.

There's also been a bit of team shuffling over the past few years at EAC, Dean left to do Fight Night and came back for 13, I'm not even sure if Littman is even still at EA after being moved to the failed NBA Elite/Live reboot and if he is he's been very quiet. Which would account for a bit of the stagnation the title has seen the last couple years.

To be honest I don't think it has anything to do at all with 2k putting a hockey game out or not, 2k wasn't competition for this Sku this entire console gen even when they were putting out a hockey title. I know that hurts some ears but when you really seriously think about it, it's pretty true. For the first part of the gen 2k relied on shoddy ports, attempted to rebuild the series with little resources and time, and failed miserably. Meanwhile NHL was winning sports game of the year after sports game of the year awards.

Did the perhaps coast a bit from 09-13? Yes, I think that's very fair to say, when your biggest additions are board pinning, broken sticks, and goalie fights.

However the larger issues they needed to tackle, skating, GM logic, AI were more than just one cycle simple fixes. Getting all those strategies and forecheck situations into the game and working properly to me seems a far bigger task than just rewritting a couple lines of code from an existing base, because remember, often if you tweak one thing in code, it can break several other things.

Yes the offline game was a bit neglected, but not knowing what was going on behind the scenes, and taking a much smaller budget into account, I have a hard time believing the team didn't want to rest on the laurels and just make small minor improvements. As we've seen this year with the skating engine addition, along with GMBrain (if it works as advertised) and GM Connected etc.

If nothing else I'd say the game this year has more major additions in all the years prior on this current console cycle put together.

[acelang123]

Quote: Originally Posted by jonapaloma

I think alot of the causes are... Money! Even though I can understand it, its not good for us gamers, I think. They want to make as much money as possible on the franchise. Just look at the movie industry, all these sequels and remakes.

Making the perfect game is a doubled edged sword. Don't like TW 13, you play Links 2004 and don't like Madden 13 you play NFL 2K5. Those were perfect games, and have things that games today don't have. EA Sports is making money because they are budget minded and ruthless contract negotiators. They are on pace to have the success of a Disney like corporation, so the games will be near flawless in about 10-15 years.

[bwiggy33]

Quote: Originally Posted by RealmK

However the larger issues they needed to tackle, skating, GM logic, AI were more than just one cycle simple fixes. Getting all those strategies and forecheck situations into the game and working properly to me seems a far bigger task than just rewritting a couple lines of code from an existing base, because remember, often if you tweak one thing in code, it can break several other things. Yes the offline game was a bit neglected, but not knowing what was going on behind the scenes, and taking a much smaller budget into account, I have a hard time believing the team didn't want to rest on the laurels and just make small minor improvements. As we've seen this year with the skating engine addition, along with GMBrain (if it works as advertised) and GM Connected etc. If nothing else I'd say the game this year has more major additions in all the years prior on this current console cycle put together.

See and I understand that these fixes they made this year are not one cycle fixes. To me I just don't understand how these things weren't thought of when NHL 07 was released. These are all things that should have been in a plan of what they wanted to be done. Did they have the technology at the time? I have no clue, but I just think the NHL team is so far behind what they could have already had. The major changes that 13 has brought seem like they could have been done by at least NHL 11. I just think NHL has fallen 2 or 3 years behind where all of these changes could have been. Just my opinion and as I've stated I don't know what went on behind the scenes but I have an extremely hard time believing the things we are getting for 13 couldn't have been done sooner.

I honestly wish the NHL dev team would come out and say why this and that wasn't done sooner. I just want some communication from them so we know that they are listening. There really is none of that at all. If they just came out and said why this and that feature wasn't added it would make me feel a whole lot better. Since there is no communication or anything that's when I get kind of angry.

[RealmK]

Quote: Originally Posted by bwiggy33

See and I understand that these fixes they made this year are not one cycle fixes. To me I just don't understand how these things weren't thought of when NHL 07 was released. These are all things that should have been in a plan of what they wanted to be done. Did they have the technology at the time? I have no clue, but I just think the NHL team is so far behind what they could have already had. The major changes that 13 has brought seem like they could have been done by at least NHL 11. I just think NHL has fallen 2 or 3 years behind where all of these changes could have been. Just my opinion and as I've stated I don't know what went on behind the scenes but I have an extremely hard time believing the things we are getting for 13 couldn't have been done sooner. I honestly wish the NHL dev team would come out and say why this and that wasn't done sooner. I just want some communication from them so we know that they are listening. There really is none of that at all. If they just came out and said why this and that feature wasn't added it would make me feel a whole lot better. Since there is no communication or anything that's when I get kind of angry.

Honestly I don't blame the NHL devs for not coming around OS anymore. There's only so many times you can explain that the game has no comeback logic to people only to have them call you wrong when you're a dev working on the game.

Redshirt put up with a whole ton of crap from quite a few people for a while there. I don't blame him one bit.

[bwiggy33]

Quote: Originally Posted by RealmK

Honestly I don't blame the NHL devs for not coming around OS anymore. There's only so many times you can explain that the game has no comeback logic to people only to have them call you wrong when you're a dev working on the game. Redshirt put up with a whole ton of crap from quite a few people for a while there. I don't blame him one bit.

I can understand that, but if you look at it the Madden and NCAA Devs even have at least some communication on OS and those are two of the most bashed games on this site. No matter what they do the games get bashed. I can't imagine the NHL forums being worse. Then again though Madden and NCAA definitely have more workers and budget to come on here and just interact with us.