Breaking Down Madden: The Run Game

[Feldman011teen]

I'm going to let you know now that everything he mentions in this article still exists in '13.

[DeuceDouglas]

The biggest problem with the blocking as a whole, not just the run game is that it is always either win or lose. There's no middle ground. It's why the DT sacks are so prominent and why running on higher levels is so frustrating. It's also the same reason you can put a kicker in at guard and he can contain a 350 pound tackle with ease.

This is where the IE needs to come in huge next year and allow for more that middle ground leverage battle rather than the very black or white, animation based blocking we have now.

[shavane]

The running game will never work properly until there is actual physics that take weight, speed, strength, leverage, momentum and ratings into the equation.

I've played running back my entire life and one thing you learn is that running plays rarely develop the way they are drawn up. If you are a back with good vision you know that it is a general area that you are running to and the blocking in front of you is attempting to open that hole for you. Even thought the offensive line works together and in unison...it is a collection of individual battles. You learn really fast when you have a offensive lineman that is getting manhandle by a DT or DE.

If your running a stretch play you may have to be prepared to cut it back, up, or bounce it outside sooner if there is penetration. Even if you have a dominant DE or DT you can use this to your advantage because hopefully your lineman can get some part of their body between you and the defender so you can play off of this. There are often those moments where they just come free and meet you in the backfield at the same time the QB is handing the ball off, but it shouldn't happen that often.

The problem with Madden is like you said if the cpu determines that they want to stop you they will find a way to do so which often leaves you feeling cheated. I love the demo and the running game is a lot more organic but there are still those times where the blocking is perfect and the defender magically disengages and tackles me. It is much improved on the demo this year...there are always several lanes being created. I'm seeing defenders get cut blocked, flipped in the air, over pursuing, or over penetrating.

The infinity engine is a great start for creating more realistic running. I have seen moments and interactions all over the field that I have never seen on a football video game before. The only thing they can do is make it better where the players feel like they have much more weight, speed, and momentum. If I'm coming off the edge with Ware and Sproles is trying to block me I want to feel like the only chance he has to block me is with a cut block. Contact is much improved but it feels like that brushing by video Natural motion put out years ago for Backbreaker but there is no real ump or thump like there should be if your finishing a run or making a big hit.

[TreyIM2]

Quote: Originally Posted by Whomario

No offense, but why go through all this trouble breaking down the ´12 version instead of waiting a couple weeks and doing it for ´13 ?

I was thinking the same thing but, guess what? He's dead on still judging by the 13 demo. What's funny is that I JUST started utilizing the right stick with my left stick as a defensive lineman (my usual choice when playing on D) over the weekend and noticed a little difference when getting out of blocks. It seems to work but can be wonky with controlling the player once he breaks free because he'll end up facing the wrong way then u have to loop him back and/or get caught by another blocker. I'm still tinkering with it.

A bit of a sidebar -
"This would probably have to be accomplished with separate animations for the blockers and defenders (as opposed to the two-man animations that they currently use), meaning that the interaction might not look as crisp as you’re used to seeing, but I think ultimately it would be worth it."

This right here is what ppl seem to have a problem with in terms of the IE in Madden 13. "...the interaction might not look as crisp as you’re used to seeing, but I think ultimately it would be worth it." Ppl will still find a way to complain just like many have about IE. It's not perfect and not "as crisp" as ppl wanted but they don't understand that it was worth it. RTP IS NOT PERFECT FOR ANY GAME PPL!! Look at the Rockstar games such as GTAIV and Red Dead Redemption. They used the Euphoria engine for their RTP and it still has funny moments and it's not as obvious because of the types of games they are, not needing as much physical contact between characters where as football needs A LOT OF IT so it gets more exposed.

Look at NHL and FIFA - The RTP engines in those games look WORSE than what is in Madden 13 yet games like those get hailed more so for adding it and being improved with the use of it....

Sidebar closed -

Ahem, back to this article, I like what is presented here. I know EA knows they have to fix the blocking/line play. I don't doubt they are working on the IE engine to incorporate it.They're taking steps forward PLUS next gen is right around the corner. Hopefully they won't, uhh, fumble with those consoles as much as they did with these current gen machines and advance the game properly and in a more timely fashion. NO MORE GIMMICKS EA!!!

[Demoncrom]

He is so right - the line play in madden is trash and the only one to get the running to work properly at higher levels is to adjust the sliders.

[TreyIM2]

Quote: Originally Posted by shavane

The running game will never work properly until there is actual physics that take weight, speed, strength, leverage, momentum and ratings into the equation. I've played running back my entire life and one thing you learn is that running plays rarely develop the way they are drawn up. If you are a back with good vision you know that it is a general area that you are running to and the blocking in front of you is attempting to open that hole for you. Even thought the offensive line works together and in unison...it is a collection of individual battles. You learn really fast when you have a offensive lineman that is getting manhandle by a DT or DE. If your running a stretch play you may have to be prepared to cut it back, up, or bounce it outside sooner if there is penetration. Even if you have a dominant DE or DT you can use this to your advantage because hopefully your lineman can get some part of their body between you and the defender so you can play off of this. There are often those moments where they just come free and meet you in the backfield at the same time the QB is handing the ball off, but it shouldn't happen that often. The problem with Madden is like you said if the cpu determines that they want to stop you they will find a way to do so which often leaves you feeling cheated. I love the demo and the running game is a lot more organic but there are still those times where the blocking is perfect and the defender magically disengages and tackles me. It is much improved on the demo this year...there are always several lanes being created. I'm seeing defenders get cut blocked, flipped in the air, over pursuing, or over penetrating. The infinity engine is a great start for creating more realistic running. I have seen moments and interactions all over the field that I have never seen on a football video game before. The only thing they can do is make it better where the players feel like they have much more weight, speed, and momentum. If I'm coming off the edge with Ware and Sproles is trying to block me I want to feel like the only chance he has to block me is with a cut block. Contact is much improved but it feels like that brushing by video Natural motion put out years ago for Backbreaker but there is no real ump or thump like there should be if your finishing a run or making a big hit.

Good points. Once they really get the physics equations down to incorporate momentum, speed, weight, velocity, angles, yada, it's going to be a beautiful thing.

I can definitely agree about the thumps. They gotta work on the pops in the hitting. Things like that get ppl amped when it's done, even if they're the poppee. Lol. A good hit is a good hit so EA needs to get those in the game.

[PGaither84]

So, everything we have all been saying for years, except he used to make Back Breaker.

It wasn't a bad read, but it isn't like EA doesn't know this already. Heck, AJ and I talked about this at length two years ago, or when BezO, Ryan Moody, and Valderez talk about "engaged player movement," and EA already has a former NFL offensive lineman working for them.

This is why I don't think the guys in central game play are as talented as, say, the art team or Josh Looman and those who work on Franchise [CCM.]

APF2k8 and ESPN 2k5 had this already and was/is a major reason why those games are so much better on the field than Madden, even today.

[datruth]

Quote: Originally Posted by kingsofthevalley

Very good write up. I think one of the things that needs to be brought back to defense (this seems to have been taken out at the beginning of the current generation of Madden/NCAA titles) is the sensitivity of the left analog stick. Now when I say sensitivity, I don't mean the current twitch movement that we have in game. What I'm specifically speaking about is the degrees of movement in relation to the pressure you put on the left stick and the movement of the player. In order to play effective defense or should I say (defense that plays out correctly and retains the immersion/visuals making you feel like you're on the field) you have to have the ability to move laterally with precision. Compare the PS2 versions of Madden with current generation. Before the play, select a safety. Gently nudge the left analog stick down and you'll notice your player will actually WALK. Now place a bit more pressure and he'll start to jog. Full pressure will give you a sprint. That precision control has been totally removed from current gen Madden. There is a semblance of it still in place, but its not like it should be. This is where all the complaints of player movement originated. Until the players are anchored back to the field as they should be, (they're taking baby steps, as you see the LBs can't jump up like they're feathery light anymore) no amount of animations added to the library is going to smooth this out. The players are too robotic at the moment, they had more "life" last generation and you could actually feel the weight. Don't get me wrong, I most definitely agree with adding more animations but the base player movement MUST be returned to its former glory before it all will make sense.

So true. I've been saying this for years. You got it spot on.