NBA 2K13 - Some Clarity on the Control Stick

[silverskier]

Quote: Originally Posted by Beluba

This was big for me too, and something I don't think any hoops game has ever modeled well. A lot of my time this year was spent working on the onball defender/dribbler interactions - we call them body ups (or rides) internally. In the past we've had both extremes, long 2p anims that you were locked into or the infamous dribble stuns where the ball handler just bounces back like he was shot in the face. This year, as you can see a bit of in the dev video, the ball handler can now take the contact and Iso out of it at any time. The challenge was giving the ball handler the freedom to pull off moves while still allowing the onball defender to effectively deflect the dribbler off course. There's still a lot I want to add to the system going forward but I'm pretty happy with how improved the 1-on-1 game feels this year. Definitely light years ahead of anything we've attempted in the past. It's also amazing how well the rides blend into the improved contact shot system using the Dynamic Shot Generator. The whole sequence from the start of a drive to the body up to the contact shot and finish can look just as smooth as a sequence straight out of mocap. This is easily my favorite aspect of 2K13.

In a near future will we see interaction between more than 2 players? Thx for sharing your thoughts beluba, we, the consumers, really appreciate it

[JasonMartin]

I really hope I can defend the post for once and not have attacking players go through me or I get fouled constantly. Let me stand still and block the player/shot properly. Would be great.

Not really getting the shoot buttons and stuff but I'm sure it will all play out when I get the game.

[blues rocker]

Quote: Originally Posted by Beluba

This was big for me too, and something I don't think any hoops game has ever modeled well. A lot of my time this year was spent working on the onball defender/dribbler interactions - we call them body ups (or rides) internally. In the past we've had both extremes, long 2p anims that you were locked into or the infamous dribble stuns where the ball handler just bounces back like he was shot in the face. This year, as you can see a bit of in the dev video, the ball handler can now take the contact and Iso out of it at any time. The challenge was giving the ball handler the freedom to pull off moves while still allowing the onball defender to effectively deflect the dribbler off course. There's still a lot I want to add to the system going forward but I'm pretty happy with how improved the 1-on-1 game feels this year. Definitely light years ahead of anything we've attempted in the past. It's also amazing how well the rides blend into the improved contact shot system using the Dynamic Shot Generator. The whole sequence from the start of a drive to the body up to the contact shot and finish can look just as smooth as a sequence straight out of mocap. This is easily my favorite aspect of 2K13.

excellent...i can see how it would be tough to allow the ball handler to break contact without making it feel like the ball handler has a huge advantage...but i if the defender is ballsy enough to crowd the ball handler, then he's risking the chance that the ball handler could spin off of him and blow by him..so I don't really think allowing such "breakable contact" will feel too cheesy in favor of the ball handler. if the defender doesn't want to risk getting blown by off of a bump, then he should just play off the ball handler a bit and give him some space.



while you're here Beluba...I have a question regarding one of the most frustrating issues from 2k12 - lack of contact/charges on hop steps, spin moves, and drives. was this addressed? in 2k12 on hop steps and spins, the ball handler could slide defenders aside or just morph through them. it allowed people to recklessly plow through defenders when they should've been called for charges...or on aggressive drives the ball handler would plow into a stationary defender but he would get bailed out with a shooting foul when he should've knocked over the defender and been called for a charge. in 2k12 people were being rewarded with free throws for recklessly ramming into defenders...meanwhile, the defender was being punished for having good position and just standing in front of the ball handler. obviously this is a physics issue and relates to how the game can recognize when the ball handler is aggressively moving into a "neutral" or stationary defender.

in 2k13 i'd really like to see physics-based "auto charges"....where if the ball handler just plows into a defender with a hop step, physics will kick in and he'll knock over the defender and be called for a charge. i would like to see these physics-based "auto charges" happen on ill-advised hop steps, spins, and just plain aggressive layups and dunks...physics should determine all. no more cheap bailouts for the ball handler. it shouldn't matter if the defender is in the "draw charge stance"...if the defender neutralizes the left stick and is standing still, the ball handler should knock him over and be called for a charge - simple physics. dealing with this specific issue would significantly reduce controller-throwing moments for me. the hop step and spin animations would need to have "interruptible branch points" in order to make it work...so that at the point of contact the hop step or spin could branch off into a bump or a charge. anyway, if it hasn't been worked on yet, hopefully it can be worked on before release, because this issue is crucial to the game being balanced from an offense vs defense standpoint.

here's a video I made illustrating such a situation where physics should have taken over and created a charge, but instead the 2 players got suctioned into some awkward-looking contact layup...the defender is inexplicably called for a shooting foul and the reckless ball handler gets bailed out with free throws. RAAAAAAAAAGE!




here's another video I made illustrating a similar situation, but this time it involves a hop step (skip to the 2:07 mark):





here's a really crazy example i recorded showing the unstoppable spin move animations.

[bigeastbumrush]

^^Yeah...that spin move just looks totally contextual. Nothing is stopping it.

I wonder how the engine will respond once he gets bumped on the spin.

Will he be able to branch out of it or will he just be bumped out of the contextual movement?

[JODYE]

Nice clips blues.

Also reminded me how poor the physics were on some of those contact animations.

Why is Harden able to stop LeBron at full speed and Harden isn't phased? Should have been a charge, but LeBron should have plowed him over and LeBron should have stumbled or fell to the floor.

Harden turned into a impenetrable brick wall of sorts. Really strange. Saw that happen a lot in 12. Very frustrating.

[TreyIM2]

Quote: Originally Posted by Beluba

This was big for me too, and something I don't think any hoops game has ever modeled well. A lot of my time this year was spent working on the onball defender/dribbler interactions - we call them body ups (or rides) internally. In the past we've had both extremes, long 2p anims that you were locked into or the infamous dribble stuns where the ball handler just bounces back like he was shot in the face. This year, as you can see a bit of in the dev video, the ball handler can now take the contact and Iso out of it at any time. The challenge was giving the ball handler the freedom to pull off moves while still allowing the onball defender to effectively deflect the dribbler off course. There's still a lot I want to add to the system going forward but I'm pretty happy with how improved the 1-on-1 game feels this year. Definitely light years ahead of anything we've attempted in the past. It's also amazing how well the rides blend into the improved contact shot system using the Dynamic Shot Generator. The whole sequence from the start of a drive to the body up to the contact shot and finish can look just as smooth as a sequence straight out of mocap. This is easily my favorite aspect of 2K13.

I had noticed the interactions when I first seen the vid while at work. I didn't really want to speak on it til I got home and played 2K12 since I haven't touched it in months, barely even touching it prior to that, and couldn't confirm if the interactions were the same. Still haven't played it because Live 10 made it into my PS3, first, and hasn't come out cuz I'm back on those controls as prep for the 2K13 demo. Ha!

Again, I have to say, Mike, that I appreciate all your hard work in finally getting analog dribbling over to this game plus reading your comment made me even more excited. The interactions look good even in the little you've shown. Looking foward to seeing more and playing the game. This is all looking and sounding amazing and this will probably be the best sports game, ever, imo.

[silverskier]

great examples @blues rocker

[TreyIM2]

Quote: Originally Posted by cavsfan2

I wish for the demo we could just shoot around to get used to the completely new offensive controls but I doubt it will happen.

Dunno. I think MW had something like that in the Live 10 demo so I wouldn't be surprised if he's putting something together, again, for 2K13. Beluba?