NHL 13 Screenshots - Dynamic Goalies

[Rogie Vachon]

Quote: Originally Posted by RealmK

They simply can't win. It's become more and more obvious to me every year.

EA NHL - "we`ve put more effort into the AI this year than we have in the last 3 yrs combined".

[RealmK]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rogie Vachon

EA NHL - "we`ve put more effort into the AI this year than we have in the last 3 yrs combined".

Eh I think we knew that before they even said it. As an offline guy it bothered me too but look at it from a realistic light. It's a yearly title, just like any other sports title. It has a smaller budget and sells far fewer units than say a Madden or NCAA Football, and they have a line to balance between not only online and offline play, but hardcore guys like us and casual fans which is the majority of their sales, the casuals.

Did it bother me a couple years ago when they said they totally revamped CPU logic and the sim engine and it ended up not panning out how us hardcore guys would have liked? Sure as hell it did, the difference is I try and find enough good in the series to go along with the bad parts of it and at the end of the day it's enjoyable.

I'm right with you, I'd like to see better goalie movement, better puck physics, etc etc etc. But seriously some of you guys only post the negative or go out of your way to find things to pick the game apart on. If you hate the game so much every year, why buy it every year?

If I seriously thought the game was terrible and I didn't enjoy playing it, even with the AI issues, or trade logic issues or take your pick issues, I'd be doing the same thing you guys do every year. Personally though the game is fun, about as realistic a hockey game as we're prolly ever going to get in it's current state with the changes to the skating engine and the like, and hopefully the AI talk ends up panning out and we get a pretty awesome game out of it.

[Wingnatic]

EA needs to give some love to goalies and defensemen instead of mostly focusing on scoring. That's not what hockey is all about. These positions are so hard to play in NHL 12. I'm tired of being a defenseman and poke-checking and stick-lifting the hell out of a forward only to have him retain control of the puck somehow. It's like, I may as well not even have a stick sometimes. I know they were trying to tout their new hitting engine but I prefer playing the puck, in most cases.

I gave up on holding LT and getting in passing lanes. That doesn't even work most of the time. Mind you, I have my D-man set up with 99 defensive awareness and stick-checking.

Clipping is a serious issue too that negatively affects the gameplay. I see way too many goals go in because a forwards stick clips through the goalie and the net. It happens a lot on wraparounds.

I agree with a few here who have said that goalies need an overhaul. One of my huge pet peeves is the robotic skating. When I come out to play the puck, he doesn't skate like a real goalie. The clunkiness makes it really hard to play the puck properly. I would like to see something where, when the puck is coming around the boards and behind the net, you can press one button and your goalie GLIDES around the net to play it, and as soon as you play it, he automatically GLIDES back around to the front of the net.

Also, EA needs to work on the post-hugging. Coming on and off the post needs to feel less like a magnet and more organic. It's very hard to stop one-time passes from behind the net with the way it is now. Last but not least; what is it with so many pucks magically finding their way past the goalie. Is it 99 offensive awareness? Does that automatically make pucks squeeze through near impossible gaps? It's really frustrating when you have a good angle on a shooter and the puck still manages to get by somehow. I watch the replays and think, "There is no way that puck should have went in."

Anyway, I'm done rambling. Despite it's flaws, EA produces great hockey games.

[FBeaule04]

Quote: Originally Posted by RealmK

Eh I think we knew that before they even said it. As an offline guy it bothered me too but look at it from a realistic light. It's a yearly title, just like any other sports title. It has a smaller budget and sells far fewer units than say a Madden or NCAA Football, and they have a line to balance between not only online and offline play, but hardcore guys like us and casual fans which is the majority of their sales, the casuals. Did it bother me a couple years ago when they said they totally revamped CPU logic and the sim engine and it ended up not panning out how us hardcore guys would have liked? Sure as hell it did, the difference is I try and find enough good in the series to go along with the bad parts of it and at the end of the day it's enjoyable. I'm right with you, I'd like to see better goalie movement, better puck physics, etc etc etc. But seriously some of you guys only post the negative or go out of your way to find things to pick the game apart on. If you hate the game so much every year, why buy it every year? If I seriously thought the game was terrible and I didn't enjoy playing it, even with the AI issues, or trade logic issues or take your pick issues, I'd be doing the same thing you guys do every year. Personally though the game is fun, about as realistic a hockey game as we're prolly ever going to get in it's current state with the changes to the skating engine and the like, and hopefully the AI talk ends up panning out and we get a pretty awesome game out of it.

You know Realm, I've said it many times, I'm part of why EA can do a lazy job and still make money with their games. I'm not happy, but I'll play them from day 1 to day 364, and start over next year.

On saying that you enjoy playing it because it's fun, for me, it's the exact opposite. I play it because it's the only hockey game available on the market, because I'm an hockey addict and lover and because I need my fix no matter what. I can put NHL on the shelve for a week, you can be sure I'll start hitching toward it just to play a few games.

Knowing that my craving for hockey is that bad, I try everything possible to have a great time and close my eyes to obvious situations that aren't making sense with this game. I've played a game few hours ago and I should have but I didn't, took 4-5 videos of example of what's wrong with this game. I was on the verge of swinging the DVD by the window and sey to EA : "Go F*** Yourselves, I won't buy that game anymore." Then I go play another game for 1-2 hours, and my hitching for hockey, trying something else to make that game works, starts again.

Maybe goalies movement is asking a lot from a game development team, but they are making miracles all over the place with the game, but in other area, this is so bad, it's tough to accept. I've said once and will say it again. Until proven differently, EA's guy maybe a hell of a team on the programming side, but hockey wise, they are terrible. Proof of that is that the AI so well programmed on the computing side that it's making almost the same thing every game. On the hockey side, it's so bad that these things they are programmed to do makes the game tough to enjoy.

To be honest Realm, I don't care that much about those stats not beeing that close to reality, not caring much about the fact the AI CPU trade logic is bad as long when you play the game, the players play like they're suppose to play. If they aren't, you can provide us with what you want for menus, systems, etc. it won't matter since what most guys want is not the goodies, but a game that reflects what we are seeing on TV (to some extent, I should say).

What I'm seeing and try to blind my eyes from for the last 9 months isn't near what I saw on the ice for the Stanley Cup Playoffs. Offensively, this game isn't that bad. Defensively, it's a joke (with the voice of Jeremy Roenick) and in net, it's a parjury.

Just my two cents.

[RealmK]

Quote: Originally Posted by FBeaule04

You know Realm, I've said it many times, I'm part of why EA can do a lazy job and still make money with their games. I'm not happy, but I'll play them from day 1 to day 364, and start over next year. On saying that you enjoy playing it because it's fun, for me, it's the exact opposite. I play it because it's the only hockey game available on the market, because I'm an hockey addict and lover and because I need my fix no matter what. I can put NHL on the shelve for a week, you can be sure I'll start hitching toward it just to play a few games. Knowing that my craving for hockey is that bad, I try everything possible to have a great time and close my eyes to obvious situations that aren't making sense with this game. I've played a game few hours ago and I should have but I didn't, took 4-5 videos of example of what's wrong with this game. I was on the verge of swinging the DVD by the window and sey to EA : "Go F*** Yourselves, I won't buy that game anymore." Then I go play another game for 1-2 hours, and my hitching for hockey, trying something else to make that game works, starts again. Maybe goalies movement is asking a lot from a game development team, but they are making miracles all over the place with the game, but in other area, this is so bad, it's tough to accept. I've said once and will say it again. Until proven differently, EA's guy maybe a hell of a team on the programming side, but hockey wise, they are terrible. Proof of that is that the AI so well programmed on the computing side that it's making almost the same thing every game. On the hockey side, it's so bad that these things they are programmed to do makes the game tough to enjoy. To be honest Realm, I don't care that much about those stats not beeing that close to reality, not caring much about the fact the AI CPU trade logic is bad as long when you play the game, the players play like they're suppose to play. If they aren't, you can provide us with what you want for menus, systems, etc. it won't matter since what most guys want is not the goodies, but a game that reflects what we are seeing on TV (to some extent, I should say). What I'm seeing and try to blind my eyes from for the last 9 months isn't near what I saw on the ice for the Stanley Cup Playoffs. Offensively, this game isn't that bad. Defensively, it's a joke (with the voice of Jeremy Roenick) and in net, it's a parjury. Just my two cents.

Well said, I'm part of that too obviously. People obviously have different thresholds for what they can deal and can't deal with in the game when it comes to issues as well. To be honest while the stats are a bit off that really isn't even what bothers me, it's things like star players or vets being put in the AHL or sent to waivers because the CPU is afraid of high money contracts. I'd like to see that fixed, heck I've liked to have seen it fixed since about 09 or so and obviously we're still waiting.

I feel the game on defense at least from the CPU AI leaves some to be desired, it's far too passive, and the CPU controlled defensemen are far too easy to lure into corners. At which point they get confused and forget they're defensemen and will often chase a player all the way to the blue line if you let them. From a human player however I feel the tools are there, stick lift, poke check, poke sweep, stick to ice etc. It may not be as glamorous or as smooth as the offensive side with the skill stick, or as easy, but I don't have too many qualms with the tools available to a player on defense. The AI needs love though.

As for the CPU AI on the opposite end I can't really disagree with you, however I believe the new fore checking settings along with skating momentum we won't see the CPU being able to setup and move as it pleases. That should also in the same sense make the game on defense less frustrating. In theory at least.

I think EA at this point realizes they need to deliver the goods for the offline guys, most of them, myself included are getting antsy with the game starting to feel samey and stale. Those goods being AI, presentation, and player separation. A working pass reception ease slider for the CPU wouldn't hurt either.

[Rogie Vachon]

More info squeezed out of the vice.

Essentially,...nothing of any worth has been changed for the human goalies.

They took away the manual saves/limb extension from RS and instead replaced them with "shoulder leaning" ....which is the cheating to move across the crease on a one timer.

So,instead of leaving that to be controlled by the LS,...you know the one that you use for moving,....considering the cheating is part of moving......they remove manual saves.

It doesn`t look like human goalies get anything except screwed again.

SCARFACE9O9 wrote:

Pvt Little Hell wrote:

SCARFACE9O9 wrote:Just a heads up that some questions I'll be leaving un-answered if I'm not 100% sure and will be leaving it for kidshowtime when he's able to answer Q's as well which will be Monday.

You and Kidshowtime used the human goalie controls?

Can you tell us a few things about the controls?

1.How do we go paddle down? If we choose paddle down when we`re in butterfly,is he going to get onto his feet first,like the animation in NHL12 that they couldn`t fix,but said they would for NHL13(this was back in Sept 2011)

2.Can it be used for a post hug,like in NHL11

3.How do we go into VH?

4.How do we go into butterfly? Will our guy stay in butterfly as long as we`re holding LT for example?

5.How do human goalies get to move or extend their limbs?

6.How do we poke check?

7.How do we do desperation saves?

If we`re standing a foot outside the top of the crease can you still just blaze back to the posts by hitting whatever we have to use.....making it uber arcade?

Answers -Yes I played a bit of human goalie as well as kidshowtime.

1. I believe LT+RT+RS down. Didn't try it while in butterfly.
2. kinda confused by the wording.
3. LT+RT
4. LT
5. Can't remember, will see if I can get clearance on this or kidshowtime when he gets back.
6. Pretty sure RS up, but don't remember for sure, like above I'll try to get clearance or kidshowtime.
7. With the RB or R1 plus the RS

.................................................. ......................................
"So,essentially human goalie controls have been unchanged,except they`ve taken away the RS manual saves/extension of limbs and replaced that with something that should be accomplished by moving the Left Stick?

That is not cool at all"

[RealmK]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rogie Vachon

More info squeezed out of the vice. Essentially,...nothing of any worth has been changed for the human goalies. They took away the manual saves/limb extension from RS and instead replaced them with "shoulder leaning" ....which is the cheating to move across the crease on a one timer. So,instead of leaving that to be controlled by the LS,...you know the one that you use for moving,....considering the cheating is part of moving......they remove manual saves. It doesn`t look like human goalies get anything except screwed again. SCARFACE9O9 wrote: Pvt Little Hell wrote: SCARFACE9O9 wrote:Just a heads up that some questions I'll be leaving un-answered if I'm not 100% sure and will be leaving it for kidshowtime when he's able to answer Q's as well which will be Monday. You and Kidshowtime used the human goalie controls? Can you tell us a few things about the controls? 1.How do we go paddle down? If we choose paddle down when we`re in butterfly,is he going to get onto his feet first,like the animation in NHL12 that they couldn`t fix,but said they would for NHL13(this was back in Sept 2011) 2.Can it be used for a post hug,like in NHL11 3.How do we go into VH? 4.How do we go into butterfly? Will our guy stay in butterfly as long as we`re holding LT for example? 5.How do human goalies get to move or extend their limbs? 6.How do we poke check? 7.How do we do desperation saves? If we`re standing a foot outside the top of the crease can you still just blaze back to the posts by hitting whatever we have to use.....making it uber arcade? Answers -Yes I played a bit of human goalie as well as kidshowtime. 1. I believe LT+RT+RS down. Didn't try it while in butterfly. 2. kinda confused by the wording. 3. LT+RT 4. LT 5. Can't remember, will see if I can get clearance on this or kidshowtime when he gets back. 6. Pretty sure RS up, but don't remember for sure, like above I'll try to get clearance or kidshowtime. 7. With the RB or R1 plus the RS .................................................. ...................................... "So,essentially human goalie controls have been unchanged,except they`ve taken away the RS manual saves/extension of limbs and replaced that with something that should be accomplished by moving the Left Stick? That is not cool at all"

Aren't you able now though to make desperation saves either during or after a save animation? Something about that doesn't sound right to be honest.

[Rogie Vachon]

I`m sorry,..but that question didn`t make any sense at all.

The human goalie controls for NHL13 are going to be worse than NHL12,....they will have removed the manual saves and replaced it with "leaning",....something that should be part of movement with the LS

Everything else looks to be the same,going by answers that have been provided by people who were hands on with the goalie controls.