Rethinking Blitzing and Show Blitz in Madden NFL/NCAA Football

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

Big to the second point, the "stone walled" animation, I think that's where that bounce could come in. Rather than the bounce serving as the means to initial contact, that could be the transition to the secondary pass rush move. With the timed blitzes, that's why I advocated show blitz the way I did. Rather than the timing strictly be A.I controlled, it comes under user control. I tell them when to move.

I think that's where I disagree because I don't like the idea of the User being able to dictate control of CPU defenders on the field, just their responsibilities when on playcalling/sideline. Timing is an inherent risk/reward to blitzing, imo, so the only defender's timing I feel the User should have control over is one being manually controlled.

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

I think that's where I disagree because I don't like the idea of the User being able to dictate control of CPU defenders on the field, just their responsibilities when on playcalling/sideline. Timing is an inherent risk/reward to blitzing, imo, so the only defender's timing I feel the User should have control over is one being manually controlled.

I can agree with that. Here is why I hesitate to though. My concern is other than play clock what would tip your A.I defenders off to move/time the blitz? I'm thinking in terms for two player head to head games. Would you opt for offensive play button sensitivity? What's going tip them off to move other than the play clock. Otherwise the movement isn't going to sync up. It'll be just like it is now IMO. Let's say we are playing each other and your offense is at the line with 20 seconds left on the play clock. You've made the adjustments you want to make we got 20 secs left on the play clock. What triggers my A.I players to move. What if you just want to wait for ten seconds? The A.I doesn't know when to time it. I think I would do a better job of guessing.

If we go back to the real life clips for a moment there are a few keys:

1) Play Clock
2) Motion
3) Cadence/Snap Count

Hidden variables we cannot see:
Reading eyes.

Also there are some "auto-motion" blitzes in the game now that are supposed to mimic what is being advocated here. They don't time up very well at all. So we gotta have some keys or something to get the AI defenders to tee off if we want to just leave it in the hands of the A.I. else it will be severely mistimed. We can look at several plays from the Packers Nickel Psycho or even 2-4-5 Corner Fire 2 Roll



When you call this play the CB's show it way to quickly resulting in their movement coming to a complete halt prior to the ball being snapped. Ideally you want these guys on the run because they are blitzing from wide space. They need to be on the run or else they will never get there in time.

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

I can agree with that. Here is why I hesitate to though. My concern is other than play clock what would tip your A.I defenders off to move/time the blitz? I'm thinking in terms for two player head to head games. Would you opt for offensive play button sensitivity? What's going tip them off to move other than the play clock. Otherwise the movement isn't going to sync up. It'll be just like it is now IMO. Let's say we are playing each other and your offense is at the line with 20 seconds left on the play clock. You've made the adjustments you want to make we got 20 secs left on the play clock. What triggers my A.I players to move. What if you just want to wait for ten seconds? The A.I doesn't know when to time it. I think I would do a better job of guessing.

Well here we go down this fundamental football rabbit hole but what the heck, lol. I started to mention this in an earlier reply but decided not to, maybe they need to add snap counts. Right now, we can snap the ball whenever, another ad lib that probably should not be there. So at least adding predetermined snap counts as another selection step necessary in the playcall screen/sideline, might allow for actually timing on blitzes. Or just have the snap count automated with an option to change it up if we want to but the point being to have a set number of snap count combinations to choose from. Then, going back to the premise of the "smart" weapon from M08, defenders have varying capabilities of timing the snaps based on AWR and PRC.

What do you think? lol

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

Well here we go down this fundamental football rabbit hole but what the heck, lol. I started to mention this in an earlier reply but decided not to, maybe they need to add snap counts. Right now, we can snap the ball whenever, another ad lib that probably should not be there. So at least adding predetermined snap counts as another selection step necessary in the playcall screen/sideline, might allow for actually timing on blitzes. Or just have the snap count automated with an option to change it up if we want to but the point being to have a set number of snap count combinations to choose from. Then, going back to the premise of the "smart" weapon from M08, defenders have varying capabilities of timing the snaps based on AWR and PRC. What do you think? lol

About the snap counts. I can already hear it. "They are taking away too much user control." Secondly, because snap the football has worked virtually the same in every football game ever made, I think, the idea would be fighting a losing battle.

When you say "varying capabilities of timing the snaps based on AWR and PRC," why is that included here? Other than guys that jump off sides, blitzes have been walked through and it doesn't take a smart guy to figure out what he needs to do. Now the AWR and PRC I think would be good for a guy that once he realizes it is not pass, he can switch and press the gaps in the run game, but for mere timing outside of jumping off sides, not sure why they would be needed.

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

About the snap counts. I can already hear it. "They are taking away too much user control." Secondly, because snap the football has worked virtually the same in every football game ever made, I think, the idea would be fighting a losing battle. When you say "varying capabilities of timing the snaps based on AWR and PRC," why is that included here? Other than guys that jump off sides, blitzes have been walked through and it doesn't take a smart guy to figure out what he needs to do. Now the AWR and PRC I think would be good for a guy that once he realizes it is not pass, he can switch and press the gaps in the run game, but for mere timing outside of jumping off sides, not sure why they would be needed.

You are probably right about the losing battle and in that quote, I was referring to keying in on the snap count, allowing certain players, to get a jump on the snap if the offenses in Madden didn't change it up.

I really can't think of how timed blitzes can be reasonably represented realistically as long as the User can snap the ball whenever. Is there something I am missing though?

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

You are probably right about the losing battle and in that quote, I was referring to keying in on the snap count, allowing certain players, to get a jump on the snap if the offenses in Madden didn't change it up. I really can't think of how timed blitzes can be reasonably represented realistically as long as the User can snap the ball whenever. Is there something I am missing though?

Big, that's why I advocated the user on defense being able to do it. But should be limited to one time. If it is shown to early, reset the play and do it again, that way it can't be used like shake blitz. As a user on defense I can pick up on motion, play clock, what the person likes to do out of each formation ect.

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

Big, that's why I advocated the user on defense being able to do it. But should be limited to one time. If it is shown to early, reset the play and do it again, that way it can't be used like shake blitz. As a user on defense I can pick up on motion, play clock, what the person likes to do out of each formation ect.

I think I get what you are suggesting but I keep picturing it as every blitzer being synchronized headed towards the LOS, if that makes sense. It seems to be in that ilk of what I mention before about things happening far too uniform.

What about if it was a User mechanic, like you suggest but each defender approached/attacked the LOS differently paced? That way, depending on the number of blitzers, some would inherently have better timing then others and the User mechanic is more ranged control then direct pinpoint control. Something to avoid every blitzer hitting the LOS at the same time, making it playout more organic.

[hay99077]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

You are probably right about the losing battle and in that quote, I was referring to keying in on the snap count, allowing certain players, to get a jump on the snap if the offenses in Madden didn't change it up. I really can't think of how timed blitzes can be reasonably represented realistically as long as the User can snap the ball whenever. Is there something I am missing though?

Great thread guys...

This quote harps on the necessity of the "get-off". Anyone who has ever played defense on a real football team knows the value of the explosion off the line. That's gotta be step one. I think someone mentioned that earlier but I think if guys actually exploded off the ball realistically based on their ACC rating, then things like snap counts and timed blitzes could be vital in increasing an accurate portrayal of specific aspects this part of the game. But the game has to crawl (add some explosion off the ball) before it can walk...