Run/Pass Commit In Madden NFL 13 - Make it More Realistic

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by shttymcgee

Why should the 2 edge DL/LB be the one's to "set the edge?" They are not necessarily the force defenders just because they're lined up as the EMOLS. The force players are determined by the coverage, not the front (which is exactly why i don't like the tiered playcalling idea/method). If the edge rusher is not the force player, he should be involved in the slant.

Mcgee, long time. Let me say this. You are right. The coverage does determine the force player. I don't have confidence that they or anyone else can write that. So to make it basic, I chose the front as the entity to set the edge. Initially when I wrote the thread I had the edge guys slanting then rethought it and said I'm not for sure they would be able to write that.

[brza37]

Quote: Originally Posted by jyoung

All of these features need to be taken out of the NCAA series: --Run/pass commit -- Jump the snap -- Telling the CPU to automatically attempt ball strips on every tackle These are all just unfun, gimmicky gameplay mechanics that people abuse like crazy online, to the point that it ruins the head-to-head online play for NCAA. The ratings should determine how players react on the field, not some cheesy feature that overrides all the ratings and turns everyone on the field into supermen.

I can't believe they added this to Madden. Run/Pass commit is one of the most unsim features in NCAA and is pretty much banned from all sim online dynasties.

I think Tiburon did so much moving in the right direction with Madden 13 but this is gonna cause some headaches in my online connected career. Why did they have to go there? That clip of Run Commit looked like Tecmo Bowl, lol.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by shttymcgee

Why should the 2 edge DL/LB be the one's to "set the edge?" They are not necessarily the force defenders just because they're lined up as the EMOLS. The force players are determined by the coverage, not the front (which is exactly why i don't like the tiered playcalling idea/method). If the edge rusher is not the force player, he should be involved in the slant.

Why does that make tiered playcalling a bad idea?

If coverage determines behavior of the front - then have it call coverage first, then then the front, and then the front players take their assignments from the coverage called, and you can adjust from there.

But what if I do want the edge rusher to be the force player, even in the coverage that normally dictates otherwise? Say I want to take a gamble, etc?

I should have that option too as a play call.

[Senator Palmer]

Quote: Originally Posted by brza37

I can't believe they added this to Madden. Run/Pass commit is one of the most unsim features in NCAA and is pretty much banned from all sim online dynasties. I think Tiburon did so much moving in the right direction with Madden 13 but this is gonna cause some headaches in my online connected career. Why did they have to go there? That clip of Run Commit looked like Tecmo Bowl, lol.

Because run/pass commit is their idea of "making defense fun" instead of adding another layer of strategy and realism.


http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/a...n-defense.aspx

Quote:

"They are doing big things this year," he said. "They're making big changes. Those are big changes that are going to break a lot of stuff, and they know that. What we're after is a better defense that's more fun to play."

[shttymcgee]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

Mcgee, long time. Let me say this. You are right. The coverage does determine the force player. I don't have confidence that they or anyone else can write that. So to make it basic, I chose the front as the entity to set the edge. Initially when I wrote the thread I had the edge guys slanting then rethought it and said I'm not for sure they would be able to write that.

I don't know very much about (anything) about how the programming works, but I would think that this is akin to the way the defense already reacts in the game: if pass-do (a), if run-do (b)

That's really all it is; Cover 3 (sky) one safety is the force player to his side, the OLB is the force player to the other side. If it's pass, they get to the flats, if it's run, they play force/reverse/boot contain.

I think the complicated part of programming the defense involves the interior run fits; good defense isn't just assigned gap control. If you assign gaps to players, what happens when the offense adds a gap (isolation/1 back power) or more than just 1 gap (counters, 2 back powers, etc)

[shttymcgee]

Quote: Originally Posted by brza37

I can't believe they added this to Madden. Run/Pass commit is one of the most unsim features in NCAA and is pretty much banned from all sim online dynasties. I think Tiburon did so much moving in the right direction with Madden 13 but this is gonna cause some headaches in my online connected career. Why did they have to go there? That clip of Run Commit looked like Tecmo Bowl, lol.

I think pass commit should definitely be in. DL should get up the field as fast as possible, LB's should hesitate or get straight into their drops.

As for run-commit, I am undecided. It just seems like it's a little too all or nothing and it is way to effective when you guess right. Maybe the best way to implement it would be to have it available only in certain situations; goalline, 3rd/4th and 1, etc. At the highest levels of football, the defense has the advantage in extreme run-heavy situations, just pinning your ear's back and getting into gaps is not a realistic "normal-down" strategy/philosphy.

[Senator Palmer]

Quote: Originally Posted by shttymcgee

I don't know very much about (anything) about how the programming works, but I would think that this is akin to the way the defense already reacts in the game: if pass-do (a), if run-do (b) That's really all it is; Cover 3 (sky) one safety is the force player to his side, the OLB is the force player to the other side. If it's pass, they get to the flats, if it's run, they play force/reverse/boot contain. I think the complicated part of programming the defense involves the interior run fits; good defense isn't just assigned gap control. If you assign gaps to players, what happens when the offense adds a gap (isolation/1 back power) or more than just 1 gap (counters, 2 back powers, etc)

I tried to get a developer to tell me how the assignments work, but the only thing he could confirm to me is that there are no gap assignments presently in the game. It sounds like you're saying that even if they were it wouldn't necessarily solve the problem, so could you expand upon the bolded as far as Madden: where it comes up short and where it could be better? Is it a matter of tweaking their present system, or would you like to see something more expansive?

I'm not 100% versed on just how the defense is programmed to react in this game as far as responding to a counter or iso play. I know that when I plug a gap on an ISO as a MLB in cover 3, the backside backer who should be free to scrape and make the play is too often nowhere to be found. Sometimes in replays I see him fiddling about waiting to be blocked, other times he takes a funny angle and takes himself out of the play. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or to the backside defenders.

[shttymcgee]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

Why does that make tiered playcalling a bad idea? If coverage determines behavior of the front - then have it call coverage first, then then the front, and then the front players take their assignments from the coverage called, and you can adjust from there. But what if I do want the edge rusher to be the force player, even in the coverage that normally dictates otherwise? Say I want to take a gamble, etc? I should have that option too as a play call.

Tiered playcalling is not that bad of an idea selecting your coverage structure than eliminates certain movements up front, but is that what you (anyone who is "pro" tiered playcalling) really wants?

It's not really as simple as saying the edge player and the flat player both play force; you can't really have two of those things (I know you have experience coaching). The problem is with the specific techniques involved when defending the run and how that will implemented in-game.

I don't really think that you should have the option do things that are just flat-out fundamentally incorrect (even though the game botches this on its own on a lot of occasions). I don't think that option would make sense to have in a football simulation, the same way i don't think you should be able to pull your goalie in normal situations in a hockey simulation.