Run/Pass Commit In Madden NFL 13 - Make it More Realistic

[HeavyHitter55]

Quote: Originally Posted by ch46647

What exactly does pass commit do? Does it only effect the D-line? I am actually happy they added this back in. I wish they would tune the pass commit to MAKE DE's aggressively rush up field. This would make the entire feature worth it IMO.

Pass commit would make a draw play deadly. If you commit to the pass, all of your non-blitzing defenders go straight into their zones (or run with their assigned man) and not look for the run at all.

But yes, I agree with LBz here. Committing to the run shouldn't look like everyone takes 2 steps to the side. Hit the gaps and flow.

However, committing to the run shouldn't be exclusive to run plays only: that nullifies making the wrong prediction/read on a PA or passing play. It should be an all-or-nothing type call, making it a high risk-high reward type system. The point of the commit option is to force both the offense AND defense to play balanced, forcing the chess match games that all real football gamers love.

[LBzrule]

Another thing to think about here when thinking about run commit and having guys actually hit gaps rather than just crashing is that in the older games and in NCAA there was just too much mess with run commit. Guys would come out in Quarters and run commit and still have coverage too. By having guys man the next gap over, there would be so many holes in the middle and at the C gaps in the Quarters D that you would run all over it. With the way run commit is right now I can already see guys lining up in Quarters, Dollar 3-2-6 and Nickel 335 all game long and destroying the run out of every set, which is lame. They'll still have coverage too.

[HeavyHitter55]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

Another thing to think about here when thinking about run commit and having guys actually hit gaps rather than just crashing is that in the older games and in NCAA there was just too much mess with run commit. Guys would come out in Quarters and run commit and still have coverage too. By having guys man the next gap over, there would be so many holes in the middle and at the C gaps in the Quarters D that you would run all over it. With the way run commit is right now I can already see guys lining up in Quarters, Dollar 3-2-6 and Nickel 335 all game long and destroying the run out of every set, which is lame. They'll still have coverage too.

Touche

[PSUEagle]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

My hunch, based on discussions in the past is some things do not get added because of time; other things do not get added because while they will nod their head in agreement, they just do not want to take the game in that direction. Some things do not get added because adding it will break something else.

This.

I honestly feel like most of the gameplay guys probably just nod their heads and pretend like they understand when EA brings in Brad Childress, Mike Pettine, etc. They've known the issues for years yet refuse to truly, substantively fix them. Instead we get band-aids or "overhauls" that aren't actually overhauls, one of my favorites being their fix to pulling guards not "blocking anyone." Rather than rebuilding the whole things from the ground up, they made the linebackers act ******** against counters and false step everytime so that it worked. Never mind the fact that none of those plays were actually blocked correctly (I have yet to see down blocking in an EA game on Power/Counter plays).

The biggest thing this game needs is someone who has a true coaching background heading up playbooks along with game play. Blitzes need to be designed so that they're adaptable to different offensive formations, including situations where different guys will pressure based on certain sets. Receivers need to run their routes with greater speed and also adapt based on coverage (i.e. Stem Release against inside man coverage, wide depart against outside leverage, outside release against cloud on a fade route, etc.) and finally fronts need to mean something.

Football isn't a game where you just draw a play on a whiteboard and make no adjustments. Hell, that's one of my main frustrations when I see all of these blitzes and passing plays added every year that were clearly drawn verbatim without any actual understanding of how they would have changed if the coverage/offensive formation (whichever is applicable) had been altered. I'd much rather have a playbook with ten blitzes that were dynamic and automatically adjusted based on the factors I've mentioned before over the 100+ that are useless against most sets.

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

Great set of questions you raise here. And now it makes me a bit skeptical of who we are dealing with. I think you are right. What would be the reason why they couldn't implement this correctly years ago? Does it break something? Would they rather have all or nothing game play for balance in the online and competitive communities? I'm not sure what would be the thought process. Maybe if crash right and left worked like we are thinking then does that really screw up the pass blocking? Not sure what to think.

Okay we may have some hope. I just played the NCAA demo and did the crashing left and right, and they do move in the direction of where they are crashing. They do not just stand straight up like in Madden. Hopefully this will be in Madden. Now I know this doesn't address the commit situation, but if it is implemented in Madden then at least that feature is working better, and furthermore it validates to me that we do not need the commit feature.

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

Another thing to think about here when thinking about run commit and having guys actually hit gaps rather than just crashing is that in the older games and in NCAA there was just too much mess with run commit. Guys would come out in Quarters and run commit and still have coverage too. By having guys man the next gap over, there would be so many holes in the middle and at the C gaps in the Quarters D that you would run all over it. With the way run commit is right now I can already see guys lining up in Quarters, Dollar 3-2-6 and Nickel 335 all game long and destroying the run out of every set, which is lame. They'll still have coverage too.

Another rock solid reason why this should not be in the game, or at least make it a option to have in the game. This way we can choose to turn it off.

[johnnyg713]

Madden is a football sim. This stuff should be in the game because that is how the game is played in real life. Do i know football this in depth? No, but playing a game that has this kind of stuff correct helps me understand the game that much more. NBA 2k has in depth, realistic basketball strategy and playing that game helps me understand the game of basketball and gives me a great gaming experience. I hope this stuff makes it in the game. Great thread LBz.

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Quote: Originally Posted by PSUEagle

This. I honestly feel like most of the gameplay guys probably just nod their heads and pretend like they understand when EA brings in Brad Childress, Mike Pettine, etc. They've known the issues for years yet refuse to truly, substantively fix them. Instead we get band-aids or "overhauls" that aren't actually overhauls, one of my favorites being their fix to pulling guards not "blocking anyone." Rather than rebuilding the whole things from the ground up, they made the linebackers act ******** against counters and false step everytime so that it worked. Never mind the fact that none of those plays were actually blocked correctly (I have yet to see down blocking in an EA game on Power/Counter plays). The biggest thing this game needs is someone who has a true coaching background heading up playbooks along with game play. Blitzes need to be designed so that they're adaptable to different offensive formations, including situations where different guys will pressure based on certain sets. Receivers need to run their routes with greater speed and also adapt based on coverage (i.e. Stem Release against inside man coverage, wide depart against outside leverage, outside release against cloud on a fade route, etc.) and finally fronts need to mean something. Football isn't a game where you just draw a play on a whiteboard and make no adjustments. Hell, that's one of my main frustrations when I see all of these blitzes and passing plays added every year that were clearly drawn verbatim without any actual understanding of how they would have changed if the coverage/offensive formation (whichever is applicable) had been altered. I'd much rather have a playbook with ten blitzes that were dynamic and automatically adjusted based on the factors I've mentioned before over the 100+ that are useless against most sets.

Really love what you stated here. The game of football is deep that I' am not 100% confident with EA's understanding of each level of the game. I hate seeing certain things implemented with no counter to it, or without the proper execution.

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by tazdevil20

is there a reason why we can't select crashes with a more tiered play calling approach? why can't I select what I want my front 4 to do pre play? How come I can't select twists, stunts, crashes, pinches, fans, etc.? IMHO, I believe it's the team underestimating the user. Basically, it's an assumption that no one will understand those anyway, and it's fine to just leave it the way it is. We can then dumb it down by simply having "crash left or right" so that the guy can say, "I think he's running right, so I'm crashing my line that way".

The reasoning I got was that they could give me everything 2k does pre-snap but on the field. That was in 2009 and I haven't seen it yet I don't know if it is the OL cannot handle it or what.