Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 13 Standard and Collector's Edition Cover Art Revealed

[OnlookerDelay]

Quote: Originally Posted by Zinger

If this game is better than MLB 11 The Show (just for starters) I'm a scratch golfer.

I own both games and Tiger 12 doesn't hold a candle to MLB 11: The Show, in terms of modeling their respective sports. I can't imagine how this game would be deserving of any 'sports' game of the year award where NCAA Football 2012, Madden 2012, FIFA 2012, PES Soccer 2012, NHL 2012, and especially NBA 2K12 are its competition. These games are all better at replicating their respective sports.

Having said the above, I still play Tiger 12 the most. Why? I just enjoy playing golf on a video game console the most. If Tiger 12 was as successful at duplicating the feel of golf as MLB 11: The Show does baseball, I wouldn't have a life

Quote:

The main problem as I see it is that none of the developers appears to be a keen golfer. How can we expect a realistic sim from people who don't care about golf or even, apparently, understand it?

I know they've had scratch golfers on the team. One of the development team was actually a teammate of Tiger at Stanford. I can't recall whether he's still with the team or not. Certainly the product we're seeing seems to indicate only a moderate knowledge of golf, but I have to wonder how bent they are on creating a simulation? I think they're making money with the game succeeding as an arcade game, with a few simulation crumbs for those of us willing to ratchet it up a bit.

Quote:

There are promising signs this year, but then there always are and it never lives up to the hype. Ho hum.

The signs are more promising than ever for Tiger 13. It's the first mention I've ever heard of a new swing mechanic. That to me is a more important development than the addition of Augusta National. If this mechanic is indeed reliant on swing tempo, and scales itself to the level of difficulty, it will be a major step forward. I just hope they demonstrate the same commitment to understanding the trajectory of fairway wood shots and chip shots!?

[1Rose]

I just want to scream at this game sometimes.

It's like, golf should be the easiest sport to get right. It's not like football, baseball or basketball where there are so many other variables.

I would love to be a part of the dev team. Dead serious. I've played golf all my life, Father was a professional, I played in college and have studied the game all my life. Not saying I have the ultimate knowledge of golf, but it seems like this series has no vision. It's like they just throw crap in so they can put something flashy on the back of the box.

This game can't figure out if it wants to recreate the experience of watching a golf broadcast, or like you're the actual player. Personally, I would prefer it to be like I'm watching it on TV.

Obviously there are so many other things wrong with this game. I have a laundry list of suggestions and opinions on things that should be done, adding to what I had posted a while back on my blog. For those who want to read it, I still have it up.

[DivotMaker]

Quote: Originally Posted by 1Rose

I just want to scream at this game sometimes. It's like, golf should be the easiest sport to get right. It's not like football, baseball or basketball where there are so many other variables. I would love to be a part of the dev team. Dead serious. I've played golf all my life, Father was a professional, I played in college and have studied the game all my life. Not saying I have the ultimate knowledge of golf, but it seems like this series has no vision. It's like they just throw crap in so they can put something flashy on the back of the box. This game can't figure out if it wants to recreate the experience of watching a golf broadcast, or like you're the actual player. Personally, I would prefer it to be like I'm watching it on TV. Obviously there are so many other things wrong with this game. I have a laundry list of suggestions and opinions on things that should be done, adding to what I had posted a while back on my blog. For those who want to read it, I still have it up.

Have you ever bothered to contact the Dev Team at Tiburon directly or indirectly? You can contact them by posting all the things you think are wrong with the game in the EA Tiger console forums. They DO read them and they DO consider the feedback carefully. I don't disagree with you on some of your points, especially about what the game is trying to be. Personally, if it has the PGA TOUR license, it should give users everything possible that you would see in a PGA TOUR Tournament. Unfortunately, the casual user market prefers the arcade style of play and that factors in to many of EA's decisions which I take exception to for the following reason: I have told them that if they build it (a compelling simulation PGA TOUR Golf simulation), they (the hardcore simulation fans who sit on the sidelines every year and pass on the game) WILL COME. So many times they try to do this and pull back because they are afraid of backlash from users that it is too hard. They need to have the cajones to build a comprehensive game with gameplay options for all skill levels and let the chips fall where they may. The game can't possibly fail if you appeal to as many users as possible.

[ComfortablyLomb]

Quote: Originally Posted by 1Rose

I just want to scream at this game sometimes. It's like, golf should be the easiest sport to get right. It's not like football, baseball or basketball where there are so many other variables. I would love to be a part of the dev team. Dead serious. I've played golf all my life, Father was a professional, I played in college and have studied the game all my life. Not saying I have the ultimate knowledge of golf, but it seems like this series has no vision. It's like they just throw crap in so they can put something flashy on the back of the box. This game can't figure out if it wants to recreate the experience of watching a golf broadcast, or like you're the actual player. Personally, I would prefer it to be like I'm watching it on TV. Obviously there are so many other things wrong with this game. I have a laundry list of suggestions and opinions on things that should be done, adding to what I had posted a while back on my blog. For those who want to read it, I still have it up.

That's really the problem though, that it's a laundry list of fundamental issues. I fully realize golf games have never done a great job of focusing on the little things (especially short game related) but the only thing that has really advanced over the past few decades have been graphics. Otherwise we're still doing the same 2/3-click mechanic that tries to produce a straight ball flight of canned trajectory most of the time. Your average weekend hacker might think that's all the pros do but they're constantly working the ball and have their strengths and weaknesses too.

I know I've said this before in this forum but I really think it bears repeating considering how other sports games (The Show, NBA 2k, Madden) including the weaker ones all seem to be more steadily acknowledging that there are characteristics that separate players and give them their respective identities. The ratings in Tiger just don't produce that kind individuality. You may be longer or shorter or spray the ball more or have a better chance of sticking a flop close but it's the same fundamental game that we were playing in Links and Jack Nicklaus games in the 90s.

Some of the tour guys lean on one shot shape and just happen to do it very well. A guy like Rocco Mediate produced a very nice career with a big draw but not much ability to work the ball and many other players are in the same boat (an aside: it's absurd that the ideal shot path in Tiger is a straight ball - that's just not what pros do). Some guys play big high power fades, some keep the ball low, some like Mickelson have ridiculously high trajectories. Even guys who are fantastic ball strikers who pride themselves on being able to work the ball have a shot type that is their strength and others that aren't quite as precise/reliable even if better than most.

The game around the greens in Tiger is equally overly simplified. Some guys are great lag putters, some are a mess within a few feet of the hole, some are consistent but rarely spectacular. Some are great sand players if you give them a normal lie but make it a little funky and they struggle. How about some of the weirder but accepted shots around greens. Blading a sand wedge from the edge of the first cut isn't even in the game but it's almost indispensable in those situations. So is a little pop with a hybrid from just into the rough. Not every player on tour is comfortable with a huge flop shot and a guy like Mickelson should have vastly more latitude than even the guys who are capable of the shot.

I could go on and on and I'm sure you could too but a simple if detailed message to the devs isn't going to fix this game. It needs a fundamental reevaluation of what it is and what it wants to be going forward and if it's being marketed at the casual crowd then all is lost anyway.

[Seymour Scagnetti]

Quote: Originally Posted by DivotMaker

Have you ever bothered to contact the Dev Team at Tiburon directly or indirectly? You can contact them by posting all the things you think are wrong with the game in the EA Tiger console forums. They DO read them and they DO consider the feedback carefully. I don't disagree with you on some of your points, especially about what the game is trying to be. Personally, if it has the PGA TOUR license, it should give users everything possible that you would see in a PGA TOUR Tournament. Unfortunately, the casual user market prefers the arcade style of play and that factors in to many of EA's decisions which I take exception to for the following reason: I have told them that if they build it (a compelling simulation PGA TOUR Golf simulation), they (the hardcore simulation fans who sit on the sidelines every year and pass on the game) WILL COME. So many times they try to do this and pull back because they are afraid of backlash from users that it is too hard. They need to have the cajones to build a comprehensive game with gameplay options for all skill levels and let the chips fall where they may. The game can't possibly fail if you appeal to as many users as possible.

I agree with some of your points but contacting the Devs is one that's pointless. I agree you can easily make a mode which will make the arcade guys happy while having a simulation mode that will make the hardcore guys happy, that's what users options are for. They can be separated especially in video golf where the AI is not really an issue. And what gamer would get turned off by having as real as possible PGA simulation in terms of career mode and immersion factor.

It's like saying that 2K decides to turn NBA2k into NBA Jam so as to get the kiddies to buy. They simply put in a options that can make it as arcadey or real as possible. It's gives the gamer options like most other sports series. I never play HOF mode because it's too damn hard but does that turn me off of the game? No.

Anybody with a business sense knows widening your spectrum of gameplay will increase sales. Why the Devs would think the opposite is beyond me. It makes absolutely no sense. Are they completely thick? I tend to think it's more of a case of laziness and the Devs not really being big PGA fans which is pretty sad since they have the license.

As for contacting the devs to give input, it will fall on deaf ears. I've never seen a dev team lazier than these guys in not listening to the fanbase. Basic simulation gameplay improvemants like realistic pin placements and extra holes have been requested for years (and I mean years) and it's been ignored and it's not like we're asking for much. How hard can it be to fix the pins and give us playoff holes where all we would need is a caption on top saying what your opponent is doing on that hole as you play it? That's a minor fix at best but we can't even get that and I doubt it will be different this year. That would be acceptable if they don't have the pro in the game you are tied with. If you are in a playoff against a licensed pro like Tiger then there is no excuse not to have him right beside you as you play as they have that hardcoded in the game when you play skins or other modes with licensed pros. Simply inexcusable.

They just don't care as easily evidenced by the lack of patches (very minor ones at best once in awhile) after the game's release.

[Zinger]

Quote: Originally Posted by Seymour Scagnetti

Anybody with a business sense knows widening your spectrum of gameplay will increase sales. Why the Devs would think the opposite is beyond me. It makes absolutely no sense. Are they completely thick? I tend to think it's more of a case of laziness and the Devs not really being big PGA fans which is pretty sad since they have the license.

I couldn't agree more. I've never known a sports game so determined to make the user play the way the developers want you to play rather than the way the user wants to play. Crazy, absolutely crazy.

[DivotMaker]

Quote: Originally Posted by Seymour Scagnetti

I agree with some of your points but contacting the Devs is one that's pointless. As for contacting the devs to give input, it will fall on deaf ears. I've never seen a dev team lazier than these guys in not listening to the fanbase. Basic simulation gameplay improvemants like realistic pin placements and extra holes have been requested for years (and I mean years) and it's been ignored and it's not like we're asking for much. How hard can it be to fix the pins and give us playoff holes where all we would need is a caption on top saying what your opponent is doing on that hole as you play it? They just don't care as easily evidenced by the lack of patches (very minor ones at best once in awhile) after the game's release.

It is far from pointless. Numerous features in TW have come from ideas from user posts in the EA and other forums. I do agree with you regarding the pin placements and lack of playoffs. Also agree with you regarding the patches or lack thereof. But to suggest contacting the Devs is pointless is inaccurate at best.

[kickingguru]

Let's face the facts... The core gameplay of the Tiger Series has not changed since TW 2002 when the analog swing was introduced. Online play has had no significant work on it since it was introduced in 2004 on the ps2. They package a bit different every year, but that is it.

To be fair, I do like the 2012 version. I would however enjoy a completely different online experience that really made you want to play online every day. Bring in some big ideas and work with them. Change the presentation model. Give us something different that says you really care about the franchise. Even if it flops, I would applaud the effort. Truly, it has seemed they used the copy, paste, and fix model for 8 years now.

Here is to true change...