Forza Motorsport 4 - Reflecting on the Past, Present and Future of Forza

[Hooe]

I hear you all.

I agree that more cars on-track, qualifying laps, and free laps would be really nice additions. I think Forza already has pit stops, though I don't think they are fully animated and there certainly aren't many races that force the user to pit; this could be improved. Track condition variance would also be welcome.

Beyond the issues that RandomBrother mentioned with regard to licensor permission for dysfunctional cars, I'm not sure it's completely necessary. If you do head-on collide with something in Forza with full damage on, at least in my experience, your car is going to be screwed to the point of being last/DNF anyway. I can understand it from a point of messed-up-but-not-disabled cars being a hazard to other drivers on the track in an online race, however. There's also the issue of keeping the game fun for a person who has wrecked out of the race; does he just spectate the rest? Is there some minigame he can play in while he spectates? Can he quit out and have the rest of the race finish without him, even if his console is the race host?

This idea admittedly comes from the mindset of someone who most frequently plays team sports video games: I think a more continuous and more persistent career mode might be useful in order to put an emphasis on longer races; something NASCAR-esque that you work your way up to via the shorter, specific-car / specific-drivetrain / specific-power races. Perhaps even allow users to set up custom online seasons with other users, with customizable car qualification options per-race (for example, one race in the season might only allow B-class cars, another might be FWD-only, another might require a certain qualification time on Nurburgring, etc.) and customizable scoring options for races won, laps led, pole positions, etc.

I've never really had any issues with the AI in Forza, though if there are ways you all see it could get better then I'll defer to you all.

I guess my perspective is a bit limited in that I'm not a huge racing fan, though I do enjoy the open-road racing in these games and particularly enjoy the car customization aspects of this series. That said, anything to make it better I'd welcome.

[Kruza]

Lack of aggression is mainly why the AI in the CPU cars in Forza games are dull to me. They drive and stay on that predetermined path during the course of a race all the time no matter what goes on. If a CPU car is close enough behind you to attempt a pass, they will still never try to outbrake you while entering a corner no matter how early you brake and how slowly your car goes as it approaches the apex. They never line you up or do inside or outside fakes. They never try to dart outside at the apex to try a pass attempt at the corner exit if the lead car is late on the power. What I'm getting at is... in the scenario when the lead car is just ahead of a CPU, that CPU car will not put pressure you to make any kind of mistakes to try and make things uncomfortable for the driver of the car in the leading position. This is a big part to what makes racing exciting to me. And this element of racing just doesn't exist in Forza games up to now.

I'll give one example. In a typical race in Forza game I can brake very early into a corner just to BS around, and that CPU that's close behind me will stay behind. It won't attempt to get by, or even make a subtle maneuver to the left or right side and fake a move so to get me to react and screw up. Now in Race Pro I wouldn't dare to deliberately brake early on corner entry if I want to stay ahead of a CPU car that's right on my tail. Because I know for certain CPU cars in that game will line me up and be ready to dart right past me the moment I get to the apex.

I like the points brought up by CHooe regarding specific engine/drivetrain/powertrain/car brand criteria for race events in Career mode. Including these things would be necessary if future Forza games will stick with boasting huge number of cars. This would do good to even up the range of competition somewhat.

Kruza

[leger433]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kruza

Lack of aggression is mainly why the AI in the CPU cars in Forza games are dull to me. They drive and stay on that predetermined path during the course of a race all the time no matter what goes on. If a CPU car is close enough behind you to attempt a pass, they will still never try to outbrake you while entering a corner no matter how early you brake and how slowly your car goes as it approaches the apex. They never line you up or do inside or outside fakes. They never try to dart outside at the apex to try a pass attempt at the corner exit if the lead car is late on the power. What I'm getting at is... in the scenario when the lead car is just ahead of a CPU, that CPU car will not put pressure you to make any kind of mistakes to try and make things uncomfortable for the driver of the car in the leading position. This is a big part to what makes racing exciting to me. And this element of racing just doesn't exist in Forza games up to now. I'll give one example. In a typical race in Forza game I can brake very early into a corner just to BS around, and that CPU that's close behind me will stay behind. It won't attempt to get by, or even make a subtle maneuver to the left or right side and fake a move so to get me to react and screw up. Now in Race Pro I wouldn't dare to deliberately brake early on corner entry if I want to stay ahead of a CPU car that's right on my tail. Because I know for certain CPU cars in that game will line me up and be ready to dart right past me the moment I get to the apex.

I agree that the AI in Race Pro is much more aggressive. However, I think the AI in Forza is much better than you indicate. I have lost many a positions from early breaking, late breaking and locking up, or slightly missing the apex and having the AI car capitalize by going around me. sometimes straying quite a bit from the perfect line just to make the pass. Granted, this does not happen as much as I would like but it certainly happens. I have found the best racing occurs when the AI car PI/difficulty is set such that they are competitive. You may have to handicap yourself to achieve this and get some good pack racing with lots of passing.

[SECElit3]

I absolutely agree with the previous poster. The racing AI in Forza is actually pretty good. With that being said I only played on the hardest difficulty with all assists off and a manual transmission. The R1 series was actually some of the most intense, realistic, and fun racing I have ever experienced in a racing game. I actually won only one or two races.

I am so excited for 4, I can hardly stand it


To the developer: Keep it Sim!

[Kruza]

Man, I wouldn't have brought this issue up if I wasn't already racing against CPU cars with the AI set to the Hardest difficulty in Forza 3. It's almost impossible to pull away from competing CPU cars with assists on anyway because enabling Traction Control & Stability Control limits and effectively slows the car's drive out of corner exits, and enabling Auto Braking prevents a driver from hard-braking late into a corner as an attempt to outbrake and pass a car that's positioned right in front.

To make a long story short, I think the racing experience against a field of CPU cars in a typical endurance race in Forza 3 cannot touch what goes on in a race against a field of cars on the Hard level in Race Pro (let alone the extremely tough Very Hard level) or on the Pro-Simulation level of TOCA Race Driver 3. If you guys believe the AI of the CPU cars in Forza 3 is good/great, then that's fine. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this issue.

Kruza

[leger433]

Kruza,

I agree with you that the AI in Race Pro is much better than Forza. I only think the AI in Forza is a bit better than you were indicating. My biggest gripe with the AI in forza is that there are only 7 of them in a race and, in addition, there are usually 2-3 very slow cars, one very fast car and three in the middle of the pack. The best racing happens in that pack (positions 2-5 or so). If you are competing for first place you often find yourself battling with only one car which can be quite dull sometimes. I would like many more spec racing events where the field is really close. More importantly, I hope forza 4 goes to a field of 16 cars (at least). Eight cars is simply not enough.