Madden NFL 12 Has Twice as Many People Working on Core Gameplay

[SeahawkNMD]

Quote: Originally Posted by kjcheezhead

I would be ok with having the defensive options at the play call screen like Thinking Out Loud suggested, but it wouldn't be my first choice and it's never made sense to just build them into the call imo. In Madden 10 or 11, how do you defend the situation I posed earlier? Your playing your friend using the Browns vs the Packers. He has the ball 3rd and 5. You know he likes to throw short to Driver or Findley in this situation but if you play your defenders close to the wrs, Jennings will be burn his defender deep. Is just trusting the cpu to automatically make the adjustments you want for this situation really better than having some way to tell your players how you want them to react, even if it isn't really realistic?

I agree you should have the option to press and play off individually with each CB again. I'm pretty sure most defenses give each CB their own free will of how the want to play the WR on most plays, just recently I watched something on a CB going through film saying he was pretty much deciding what technique he was going to use as he lined up across from his man.

[Thinking Out Loud]

Quote: Originally Posted by kjcheezhead

I would be ok with having the defensive options at the play call screen like Thinking Out Loud suggested, but it wouldn't be my first choice and it's never made sense to just build them into the call imo. In Madden 10 or 11, how do you defend the situation I posed earlier? Your playing your friend using the Browns vs the Packers. He has the ball 3rd and 5. You know he likes to throw short to Driver or Findley in this situation but if you play your defenders close to the wrs, Jennings will be burn his defender deep. Is just trusting the cpu to automatically make the adjustments you want for this situation really better than having some way to tell your players how you want them to react, even if it isn't really realistic?

With what you have described, in Madden 11, I would call a man LB blitz out of the nickel package, match-up Sheldon Brown on Jennings with play off technique if I double team or press with safety help, match-up Eric Wright on Driver with press technique, and match-up Joe Harden on Finley with auto technique, using the defensive match up menu. Of course there are numerous other possibilities but the point is having this stuff in the match-up menu instead of at the LOS can be effective.

To the second question, this as a more realistic method of "having some way to tell your players how you want them to react", IMO. However, having to trust your players to individually execute is kind of the whole point of any team sport and I think that's another reason this adds to the realism. It gives the gamer vast amounts of player input but limits them to only executing for ONE player.

I am starting to feel like I am trying to convince you to like it but that's not what I want to do. LOL. I am sure you like what you like and that's fine. I just think this is a good way of allowing defensive adjustments while not sacrificing realism.

I personally believe part of the reason there is not more realistic football played in football video games is because of the unrealistic way that, even real football features, are implemented and/or can be used.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by MJenness

Why does EA feel this is newsworthy?? IMHO, it reeks of a marketing ploy to suck people back in and build the hype once again. It wouldn't matter if they hired every man, woman and child on earth, because that doesn't equate to being a better product. What they NEED is people who really GET football....radical fans of the game who will not settle for a sub-par representation of what the game of football entails. People like those at 2k who clearly LOVE the game of basketball, and it shows in their final product. Give me an NFL game that is represented like that, and you will never hear another complaint from me. And I'd buy that game with ZERO hype and marketing.

A new sheriff comes into town and someone has to douse the fire on the news.

Can we give this guy a peek to find out if he will right the ship? I don't know, a former college QB with Fight Night and FIFA on his resume sounds terribly under achieved for a top spot in Madden.

[Thinking Out Loud]

Quote: Originally Posted by SeahawkNMD

I agree you should have the option to press and play off individually with each CB again. I'm pretty sure most defenses give each CB their own free will of how the want to play the WR on most plays, just recently I watched something on a CB going through film saying he was pretty much deciding what technique he was going to use as he lined up across from his man.

Exactly, the CB decided what technique at the LOS not the coach/coordinator. I think the reason gamers have concerns with even elite DBs being free to make their own adjustments in NCAA/Madden is because of there has not been enough player individuality. Hopefully them adding player tendencies this year will help.

[kjcheezhead]

Quote: Originally Posted by Thinking Out Loud

With what you have described, in Madden 11, I would call a man LB blitz out of the nickel package, match-up Sheldon Brown on Jennings with play off technique if I double team or press with safety help, match-up Eric Wright on Driver with press technique, and match-up Joe Harden on Finley with auto technique, using the defensive match up menu. Of course there are numerous other possibilities but the point is having this stuff in the match-up menu instead of at the LOS can be effective.

I agree with you here, and your idea of having it in the match up menu at least provides a place to set this up. It's having no option to choose who to press and who to play off that bothers me most.

Quote: Originally Posted by Thinking Out Loud

I am starting to feel like I am trying to convince you to like it but that's not what I want to do. LOL. I am sure you like what you like and that's fine. I just think this is a good way of allowing defensive adjustments while not sacrificing realism.

Sorry, it's just because of how passionate I am about this topic. Take the guys asking for adjustable sock lengths and colored cleats and x1000. I really don't care how it is implemented, I want to at least be able to play press and soft coverage on the same play. I would really love to be able to tell my dbs which way to shade and be able to call my own line stunts as well, but that seems like asking for the moon at this point.

Quote: Originally Posted by Thinking Out Loud

I personally believe part of the reason there is not more realistic football played in football video games is because of the unrealistic way that, even real football features, are implemented and/or can be used.

I don't know. I think there is a group of players who always want to find money plays and exploits. They play every game this way. Imo, the best way to keep those guys from running the same effective play the whole game is to give his opponent more specific ways to counter it. It also doesn't help that just basic defensive play calling is totally unrealistic in this game right now.

[kjcheezhead]

Quote: Originally Posted by Thinking Out Loud

Exactly, the CB decided what technique at the LOS not the coach/coordinator. I think the reason gamers have concerns with even elite DBs being free to make their own adjustments in NCAA/Madden is because of there has not been enough player individuality. Hopefully them adding player tendencies this year will help.

I don't look at it like I'm a coordinator. It's like I'm injecting my own personality into them. It's like I'm thinking if I was that db in that situation I would use press coverage and shade inside, so that's what I want him to do in the game.

[Senator Palmer]

Quote: Originally Posted by kjcheezhead

I would be ok with having the defensive options at the play call screen like Thinking Out Loud suggested, but it wouldn't be my first choice and it's never made sense to just build them into the call imo. In Madden 10 or 11, how do you defend the situation I posed earlier? Your playing your friend using the Browns vs the Packers. He has the ball 3rd and 5. You know he likes to throw short to Driver or Findley in this situation but if you play your defenders close to the wrs, Jennings will be burn his defender deep. Is just trusting the cpu to automatically make the adjustments you want for this situation really better than having some way to tell your players how you want them to react, even if it isn't really realistic?

I feel you. I have been frustrated by this very same scenerio. I've had times where I've looked at a trips set and seen a china play coming a mile away, but I can't tell my corner to shade inside. This is kinda where I go back and forth, because I want as much control in the hands of the players as possible, but I would like to see an emphasis on smart playcalling, instead of button-mashing at the LOS to create a defense.

Of course, the answer to this is more playcall options. Similar to the way that they gave us cover-1 press, or 2 man under press, but didn't take away the ability to press or play off.

Take a look at a simple cover 8 and variations that a coordinator has at his disposal to call.

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[Thinking Out Loud]

Quote: Originally Posted by kjcheezhead

I don't know. I think there is a group of players who always want to find money plays and exploits. They play every game this way. Imo, the best way to keep those guys from running the same effective play the whole game is to give his opponent more specific ways to counter it. It also doesn't help that just basic defensive play calling is totally unrealistic in this game right now.

I agree with everything else but on this part I fiercely disagree! LOL

I think the lack of effective basic adaptive AI and some basic football fundamentals not being represented, allows guys to run the same effective play the whole game. Now I am not talking about someone calling a dime defense and trying to stop a goal line run or something obviously absurd like that. I mean knowing someone is doing a run out of the wildcat for the fourth straight time and not having defensive players AI adjust when in a 4-3 with both safeties blitzing. EA football games should have enough adaptive AI that gamers with at least basic knowledge of offensive/defensive football can have reasonable success.

I look forward to the day there is a football video game that a 65 y/o former football coach can play for the first time and at least reasonably hold their own against a 21 y/o college kid that's been playing football video games for years.

Maybe one day...

Quote: Originally Posted by kjcheezhead

I don't look at it like I'm a coordinator. It's like I'm injecting my own personality into them. It's like I'm thinking if I was that db in that situation I would use press coverage and shade inside, so that's what I want him to do in the game.

The thing is though, if they let the gamer inject their personality into more than one player, that's not team ball. I am sure coach/coordinators/elite players wish they could inject their personality into multiple guys on the team too but they can only instruct them and watch. In EA football games we are able to instruct our team on the sideline like a coach/coordinator and choose one player to play vicariously through to execute on the field like an elite player.