Madden NFL Designers Podcast #4 w/ Special Guest, Pasta Padre Available Now

[DaSmerg]

A little late to the party but hey...

At some point in time, folks like Pasta Padre and even all kinds of folks involved here at OS are just going to have to get it through your heads that everybody doesn't have to be all buddy-buddy in order to get things done.

This isn't to say that this gives someone license to be a douche with Ian and Donny but this Podcast was barely listenable. A great example, the various flawed logics that continue to go into the year-in-year=out disconnected development of Madden aren't brought to task and Ian and Donny aren't held to task to provide a real concrete answer. Another great example, yet again, the intelligent points that people, in their spare time, bring up about a variety of games, like Madden, and take the time to break it down, frame by frame and in a way that even some of the youngest of our community members can understand are brushed off as "...those kooks..." and/or "...that latest internet fad...".

[BezO]

Just a couple of things I wanted to comment on...

"Customization is king in sports gaming" - Nah, authenticity is king. Make the game more of a simulation THEN worry about customizing. IMO there's too much time spent trying to please everyone. EVERY aspect of the game is poor at this point. The people having fun with Madden are those who can overlook the lack of authenticity, don't care for authenticity or are not familiar enough with the sport to know the difference. Unfortunately for the rest of us, that's a lot of folks.

"Realistic Animations" - I'm sure making moves at speeds not possible by humans is fun, but it kills the spacing & timing of the game. Many problems would work themselves out if the game moved more realistically. Pass rushing, pass defending & outside runs are all "off" because of missing or unrealistic animations.

[Ian_Cummings]

Quote: Originally Posted by BezO

Just a couple of things I wanted to comment on... "Customization is king in sports gaming" - Nah, authenticity is king. Make the game more of a simulation THEN worry about customizing. IMO there's too much time spent trying to please everyone. EVERY aspect of the game is poor at this point. The people having fun with Madden are those who can overlook the lack of authenticity, don't care for authenticity or are not familiar enough with the sport to know the difference. Unfortunately for the rest of us, that's a lot of folks.

We were on the topic of customization dude. Not really fair to take that out of context and act like that's my sole purpose in life to create more customization. Authenticity is obviously more important in the bigger picture.

[ryan36]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ian_Cummings_EA

We were on the topic of customization dude. Not really fair to take that out of context and act like that's my sole purpose in life to create more customization. Authenticity is obviously more important in the bigger picture.

Yeah, I'm taking Ian's side on this . I've been critical of the product's flaws, and pleased with what it did well, but I don't think one could ever make the case that authenticity has been "low on the list" for the Madden series since Ian and Phil took charge.

It's important to look at the context of the conversation...

[GiantBlue76]

Quote: Originally Posted by Reejer

As a 39yo Offline only guy, who has bought Madden since it's inception: Strat pad, and Gameflow weren't the reason that I didn't buy M-11', but it didn't make me want to buy it either. I personally didn't buy M-11' because Offline Modes were once again disregarded. If Offline Franchise and SS Modes were improved to M-06 (PS2) standards, I would have probably overlooked the controversial additions. Is there any thought of producing two seperate titles, one for online, and one for offline? Possibly making each title $40-$50 ($70 for a box set), especially since there is such a split of use between online/offline use (so you wouldn't have to worry about alienating a large group of customers). Good to see that you guys didn't give up (on podcasts) after the fallout from the last one. I do have a tidbit of advice for you guys: I understand that the online socially connected youth are the future buyers of Madden. However, the old-farts (that traditionally prefer Offline play) that have been buying Madden since it's inception aren't dead yet, and have years of purchases ahead of us.

Sorry Reejer, but I'm in my mid 30s and fall into that "old fart" category too. I actually play online exclusively. Online franchise is all i want to play, but I don't feel that OFFLINE franchise should be ignored just because I don't play it. Both online AND offline franchise should be shared code and should work exactly the same. Everything in offline, should be in online. Beating the crap out of the computer for 30 seasons in a row is not high on my list of "fun" things to do in football. Actually competing with 31 other enthusiaists and wannabe GMs to build a team through drafting and free agency moves is MUCH more appealing, and it's much more appealing to people in our age range than you might think. There is a HUGE interest in online franchise, it's just that in typical EA fashion, the feature was left incomplete and difficult to run. Very unfortunate. However, a young kid was able to write the LeagueManager web app, which manages salary cap, free agent bidding, roster management, etc. etc. Yes, one kid in his 20s did this.

As far as customization goes, there is never anything wrong with customization. The more you can do the better, but out of the box it should be a simulation game. We also need the ability to customize our online leagues/franchises the same way an offline player can customize. Everything that is offline should also be online.

Madden 11 is not a bad game. The football is decent. However, it is still lacking polish, presentation, commentary is awful and disjointed still, still can't shade coverages, fumble system is buggy and broken, challenge system is terrible still, missing a ton of penalties and the ones in the game are not called correctly, the ball physics are a mess, online franchise is missing a BUNCH of things.

That is just a list of things that should be way ahead. Then there are advanced things that we could have by now, like online spectating. How about being able to watch your opponent's games in online franchises? How about a fully functional league web site that allows for news stories, drafting, and other things? What about being able to have practice games using your online franchise team?

While I (and others) appreciate the desire to share information, both on this board and in the podcasts, my advice to the devs would be to not use phrases like, "that takes a long time", "we need more resources to do that", or "that's very difficult to implement". There are a lot of folks that have close to zero confidence in the Madden team, mainly because of these types of responses. Yes, every software development team knows things are hard and take a long time, but you don't tell the customer that.

Here's to hoping Madden comes around and returns to being a great product again.

[Reejer]

Quote: Originally Posted by tazdevil20

Both online AND offline franchise should be shared code and should work exactly the same. Everything in offline, should be in online.

Here is something that we both agree 100% on. I have just been frustrated with the "streamlining" (stripping of good features) from the Offline modes, to focus on Online modes. If all of the last-gen features were on both Online and Offline modes, I think most customers would be pretty satisfied.

I know that not all old-farts are offline only, but when I was on the EA boards there was a topic that asked how old, and what kind of player you were, and the majority of the older folks were primarily offline players.

I think that the main issue with Online play that turns me off, is being called the "N" word, and cussed at by some snot-nosed little punk, and I can't schedule a time in my day to play against someone that I don't know, or care to know. I guess I am electronically anti-social.

[tlc12576]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ian_Cummings_EA

We were on the topic of customization dude. Not really fair to take that out of context and act like that's my sole purpose in life to create more customization. Authenticity is obviously more important in the bigger picture.

Quote: Originally Posted by ryan36

Yeah, I'm taking Ian's side on this . I've been critical of the product's flaws, and pleased with what it did well, but I don't think one could ever make the case that authenticity has been "low on the list" for the Madden series since Ian and Phil took charge. It's important to look at the context of the conversation...

I am looking forward to Madden 12 being focused on real football, like they said in podcast 1 and don't want to belittle anyone's effort in Madden over the years. Madden is beloved and revered by millions so anyone working on the game should take great satisfaction in this fact. Also, there is a quote I like from boxer Floyd Mayweather Jr. that says, "People always want to tell you how to do what you do, when they can't do what you do" or something like that. LOL

That said, I don't really agree with the claim Bezo took anything out of context when looking at the big picture for what has been said and done with Madden, even if we start at Madden 10.

If Madden had a more authentic NFL football simulation foundation, the comment about customization would fall in the context of "now that the NFL simulation foundation in Madden is solid, we can focus on letting individual gamers adjust their own experience". Madden, in its' current state makes this comment, along with a few others, fall in the context of " a NFL simulation is not for everybody out the box so lets add more customization so individual gamers can make Madden more realistic."

I don't think that's being rude or overly critical but a rational assessment of the perspective some Madden devs seem to have when creating Madden. I think that's why Bezo posted that, not just because of that one comment in the context of that conversation but do to the bigger context of how user customization is repeatedly referred to as a tool to for more realism. However, in a NFL simulation game like Madden, simulating NFL reality, should be priority "out the box", with customization available for gamers to alter NFL reality, in-game, as they see fit and not the other way around.

So when looking at the ENTIRE context of how customization has been discussed concerning Madden and more importantly, the content of customization in Madden, Bezo wasn't being unfair, IMO. He actually pointed out a different perspective that could hopefully change the way some devs seem to view customization and NFL authenticity in Madden.

“It’s not what you say you’re gonna do, it’s about how you do what you said you’d do when it comes time to do it.” Kelly Ferguson, a former Army boxer and strategist.

[GiantBlue76]

Quote: Originally Posted by Reejer

I think that the main issue with Online play that turns me off, is being called the "N" word, and cussed at by some snot-nosed little punk, and I can't schedule a time in my day to play against someone that I don't know, or care to know. I guess I am electronically anti-social.

there are lots of people in the world that are morons. I only play people on my friends list. Works great. Getting into a successful online franchise is really a ton of fun. There are tons of great organized leagues out there. Even here on OS, there is the Old Timers league and the ACQB. Both are excellent, and loads of fun.