Madden NFL Designers Podcast #4 w/ Special Guest, Pasta Padre Available Now

[tlc12576]

@ the Madden devs, you guys seem to keep asking the question of what "it" is that Madden gamers want, as if "it" is some unattainable substance to satisfy everyone. Let me get the disclaimer out the way, that of course, there is NO WAY to please EVERYBODY. That said, you guys can satisfy a heck of alot more gamers and drastically decrease Madden criticism just by changing the perspective that you guys have when creating Madden.

A minority of people have been to an actual NFL game and an even smaller percentage, attend NFL games regularly. That means the overwhelming majority of people who experience the NFL, do so through some kind of broadcast medium. This concept is bedrock to understand how to create a NFL video game that most people can experience the same way they do the actual NFL.

Before anyone tunes me out and thinks this is just another presentation request, it's not, so hear me out. Commentary, halftime/wrap up shows, highlights, etc, are all good things BUT they are just icing on the cake. The cake, is the actual visual representation of NFL football being played out on the field. The reason people don't get the same NFL experience in Madden they do from the actual NFL, is because the on-field visuals don't play out reasonably the same. This is why the "gameplay first" crowd feels just as frustrated as the presentation and franchise guys, even though you guys work on gameplay, every year. It's not that you guys actually skip a year or two working on gameplay, like with other areas, it's just that some gameplay upgrades don't visually represent NFL football all that well.

Think about it, when you are having a vivid dream that seems real until, something happens that's not quite right, it exposes the illusion and you realize you are dreaming. The same concept often happens when playing Madden. Most Madden gamers are NOT certified NFL football experts but most have seen NFL game broadcasts, repeatedly, in some form. This repetition causes a visual expectation for NFL football and for alot of us, it's subconscious. That's why you can run a play and regardless of its' success or failure, it often feels artificial and not quite right, even when you can't explain exactly what's wrong about it. This is because some aspects of the play in Madden were visually represented different from an actual NFL game broadcast. I am not referring to camera angles or overlays here but the actual way player interactions visual play out on the Madden field versus the broadcast NFL field.

You guys really should consider just setting up 2 tvs and running Madden 11 on one and an actual NFL game broadcast on the other. Completely turn the sound off for both, ignore the presentation "icing" in the NFL game broadcast and just focus on the ALL the different player interactions in each play, on both tvs and compare. Then focus on getting plays in Madden to reasonably visually mimic ALL player interactions from the NFL broadcast. I will not go into some long list of position by position interactions because I think you guys know NFL football pretty well. However, you guys should not only look at what player interactions are playing out in the NFL game but also why. The little things like how a 300 lb OL and 300 lb DL visually interact versus how a 300 lb OL and 230 lb LB visually interact. These little things are visually critical in ALL the player interactions in the NFL game broadcast and really make or break the NFL experience in Madden. I keep repeating "visual" because it is critical for the NFL experience, that gamers can visibly notice these similarities. For example, protak is a great concept but if it doesn't translate well visually, like eliminating "tumbleweed/bowling pin" tackles, it doesn't really help visually simulate the NFL experience.

I commend you guys for all the effort you seem to put into Madden and I really enjoy these podcasts. However, I honestly believe if you guys come at Madden 12 from this posted perspective, everything else with the game will easily fall into place, including increased satisfaction from the Madden community and more recognition of yearly improvements.

[ryan36]

Tlc, I agree with you. just in general it's like they have this list of 95 features to put in, but the game still doesn't have an "identity." Post patch, it's pretty awesome, but I still may not buy 12. I buy it used cuz it's football , and I don't play online anyway. 34.99 at a used store or 59.99 full price = $25 a year roster updates.

The game just needs a soul. Some signature thing that pervades it's essence in every gameplay mode.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by tlc12576

I will save my "constructive criticism" till after the New Year, Happy Holidays to you and the entire EA family.

TLC, you need to work on your New Years Resolutions. tsk tsk, sorry couldn't resist that one.

There isn't much to disagree with your above post, just remember, they also have a marketing department that is equally involved as the development department.

Also, I do believe they watch the NFL and at the same time, have copies of the next Madden in a computer. This was very evident when part of the team visited Madden. It just needs to all come together at some point.

[Hova57]

Quote: Originally Posted by ryan36

Tlc, I agree with you. just in general it's like they have this list of 95 features to put in, but the game still doesn't have an "identity." Post patch, it's pretty awesome, but I still may not buy 12. I buy it used cuz it's football , and I don't play online anyway. 34.99 at a used store or 59.99 full price = $25 a year roster updates. The game just needs a soul. Some signature thing that pervades it's essence in every gameplay mode.

I personally have played madden 11 maybe 7 times. my son likes it alot more than i do. but after listening to the podcast i get the impression that they get it , but don't.

I don't think they could add the soul need for the game only because the soul of football is the unexpectedness of it all. not everyone is x and o type of guy and football its mostly the x and o and the excitement of when it goes your way. to some this may be boring and cater to one area. so like they said in the podcast what do you do.

[youALREADYknow]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

There isn't much to disagree with your above post, just remember, they also have a marketing department that is equally involved as the development department.

An intelligent company would have stopped taking their cues from marketing once they cornered (aka bought out) the market. You don't need MARKETing when you are the MARKET.

I still feel that the flaws with Madden, NCAA, Tiburon, and EA are all management driven. Can't prove it without a doubt, but the mistakes being made are typical of poor management and planning.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by youALREADYknow

An intelligent company would have stopped taking their cues from marketing once they cornered (aka bought out) the market. You don't need MARKETing when you are the MARKET. I still feel that the flaws with Madden, NCAA, Tiburon, and EA are all management driven. Can't prove it without a doubt, but the mistakes being made are typical of poor management and planning.

You are probably going into the area of blowing up the business model.

I'm just trying to remind people that the way the current business model is, Ian, Phil, Donnie and Josh aren't the only people with influences in what's inside the game.

[Hova57]

Quote: Originally Posted by youALREADYknow

An intelligent company would have stopped taking their cues from marketing once they cornered (aka bought out) the market. You don't need MARKETing when you are the MARKET. I still feel that the flaws with Madden, NCAA, Tiburon, and EA are all management driven. Can't prove it without a doubt, but the mistakes being made are typical of poor management and planning.

i believe it was poor marketing and management. Marketing fault for giving impression a type of consumer they can get a share in without fully understanding exactly how and what their product can do or does to attract that type. Management not giving or allowing the right tools to for your development team work to the best of their abilities.

Management is all about what you give your team to make the service or product successful. I've worked in situations where the tools giving ie equipment, managment knowledge and expections were poor. I've also had great equipent , good management team, but the higher up expection and knowledge is poor. You gotta find a happy medium. That's we EA stands now is finding the happy medium. I believe the managment teams are fine, but it what above them is what needs the tweaking. I believe i read that there is one guy who over seeas production for games using the same materials. i think this is just the beginning of bridging the gap.

[Hunkerdown]

My two cents........ If Madden would go the direction the NCAA team has with OD, this in my opinion would be a winner for all. I have a OD with 12 guys and we are in year 3; if it was like Madden's online franchise it would of never made it out of year 1. I like the mix of online with offline features as well. We have a full dynasty that keeps everyone coming back. The key is having a good group of guys and a strong commish that doesn't take cheese ballers; and with the ability to have sliders for all cpu opponents games, it has made it golden!! Since I have this full OD I don't even need to play offline also; since it just like playing offline with the human team aspect as well.