Why Limit Gamers?

[Dewie12]

It is all about customization. It is a shame Peter Moore axed all the PC versions.

So now the small percentage of gamers who want this are left to the consoles, which have all kinds of issues.

I agree that gamers shouldn't be limited. But I understand the rules the developers are working with Sony and Microsoft having say in the product.

That is why I continue to lament EA's neglect of the PC.

[rooney8]

Quote: Originally Posted by Dewie12

It is all about customization. It is a shame Peter Moore axed all the PC versions. So now the small percentage of gamers who want this are left to the consoles, which have all kinds of issues. I agree that gamers shouldn't be limited. But I understand the rules the developers are working with Sony and Microsoft having say in the product. That is why I continue to lament EA's neglect of the PC.

I thought pirates were to blame for that.

Nothing should be done to stop cheesing offline and ideally all the stuff done to stop it online should not apply offline.

[carnalnirvana]

gamers creativity in a 1 yr cycle would be bad for business if the next years product is not REALLLLLY different and better.

look at fifa(i wont go into details but i could) its not about the offline gamer, its about the online community and quick games played thousands of times per day........

i call it the COD halo syndrome, everyone wants 200,000 players online....

i remember reading in gamepro and EGM, dev's would envy the PC community creativity and craved next gen where they could give us the tools to edit and share, i remember xbox live being touted as the agent of player creativity trading hub similar PC gaming....them came halo 3 and cod 4, then fifa joined now the craze is about pick and play ability....

look at the patches, 3 offline components vs 10 things for online stability, its clear where gaming has gone, US offline gamers are now the dinosaurs of gaming.

i never play online because i dont believe sport games fit well with online lag, and people's mentality.....

there is a common trend in my games, sport games that play well offline are garbage online ex. nba 2k, PES online they are bad.. compared to the decent online of fifa, live and madden which are uhhhh offline. i have not played the show or nhl games cant comment on that........

if you crave online success OFFLINE will suffer

[Galarius]

I don't consider keeping a game more legit 'limiting'.........I am glad Ian Cummings is mindful of these things, shows a heck of a lot of thought

[jestep123]

Arent there rules set forth by the NFLPA on this type of thing? I honestly dont know. Even if not, while the premise of this article is good, I think it is flawed.

Someone mentioned earlier in the thread about devs protecting their work. That person was right IMO. To me, I wouldnt allow full blown customization simply to protect the integrety of the game.

I think Ian Cummings used an interesting word in "cheesing". That isnt an industry term I am sure but gamers have come to accept "cheesing" and associate it with "cheating" or more concerning to devs "cheap". Nobody wants their product to be branded that way and the fact is that if you allow the consumer to do as they please, that is what you are going to be looking at.

As mentioned, 2k games have done a great job of allowing customers to customize thier experience and IMO that does cheapen the game because it potentially allows for workarounds that would kill off the intergrity of the AI.

Most game companies limit gamers and I dont think there is anything wrong with that. Think of it this way, an author writes a book and they copyright it because they dont want you taking it, changing a plotline here or there and altering the outcome. I would like someone to explain how this is different.

[Cletus]

Quote: Originally Posted by jestep123

Arent there rules set forth by the NFLPA on this type of thing? I honestly dont know. Even if not, while the premise of this article is good, I think it is flawed. Someone mentioned earlier in the thread about devs protecting their work. That person was right IMO. To me, I wouldnt allow full blown customization simply to protect the integrety of the game. I think Ian Cummings used an interesting word in "cheesing". That isnt an industry term I am sure but gamers have come to accept "cheesing" and associate it with "cheating" or more concerning to devs "cheap". Nobody wants their product to be branded that way and the fact is that if you allow the consumer to do as they please, that is what you are going to be looking at. As mentioned, 2k games have done a great job of allowing customers to customize thier experience and IMO that does cheapen the game because it potentially allows for workarounds that would kill off the intergrity of the AI. Most game companies limit gamers and I dont think there is anything wrong with that. Think of it this way, an author writes a book and they copyright it because they dont want you taking it, changing a plotline here or there and altering the outcome. I would like someone to explain how this is different.

the difference is video games are more tangable. If you buy a book, you are free to write on the pages and thus you can change the plot. IT's your book, if you want to write on it and make the protagonist a sociopath you can. In video games, a lot of times if you want to play it your way you can't even though you paid 60 bucks for it. Online I see why you can't make things cheesy, but offline, you're playing against the cpu and a lot of times the cpu does things you can't, especially on higher difficulty.

For example, on NHL 11 the cpu passing is super accurate even when the slider is set to zero. If they didn't include a pass acurracy slider, then there's nothing you could do to combat that. That would be just as cheesy as setting it to rookie and jacking all the sliders in favor of human.

[threes_co]

I do not mean to bash but this idea may just be a front to keep people buying their accelerators.

[moneal2001]

Quote: Originally Posted by jestep123

Arent there rules set forth by the NFLPA on this type of thing? I honestly dont know. Even if not, while the premise of this article is good, I think it is flawed. Someone mentioned earlier in the thread about devs protecting their work. That person was right IMO. To me, I wouldnt allow full blown customization simply to protect the integrety of the game. I think Ian Cummings used an interesting word in "cheesing". That isnt an industry term I am sure but gamers have come to accept "cheesing" and associate it with "cheating" or more concerning to devs "cheap". Nobody wants their product to be branded that way and the fact is that if you allow the consumer to do as they please, that is what you are going to be looking at. As mentioned, 2k games have done a great job of allowing customers to customize thier experience and IMO that does cheapen the game because it potentially allows for workarounds that would kill off the intergrity of the AI. Most game companies limit gamers and I dont think there is anything wrong with that. Think of it this way, an author writes a book and they copyright it because they dont want you taking it, changing a plotline here or there and altering the outcome. I would like someone to explain how this is different.

The flaw there is that most people that do customization do not "cheese" the game. They try to make the game more sim like. If you look on the 2k boards or online downloads, you see realistic slider sets or rosters that produce more realistic results.

The devs do an amazing job with the time that they have but, it is a very limited time. There are always flaws that get missed or overlooked due to time constraints. Allowing the players to correct those with sliders or roster editing or what have you, seems like the best fix for the problems that we have.

The 2k basketball games offer a huge amount of customization and connectivity to that customization. You say that it produces workarounds that kill the integrity of the AI, but most will say the opposite is happening. It allows the player to get past the flaws in the AI. Like trade and draft AI, two very hard things to program.

In madden you can trade draft picks for Peyton Manning. Do you ever think the colts would do that in real life. No, but it is in the game. Or how about running the same play all game long because the defense never adjusts to it. Those are the real representations of "cheese". How is that not killing the integrity of the AI, its the AI allows cheese like that.

Also most cheesers are lazy finding the easiest way to produce there wants or cheat to the game. Customization takes far too long to get through for most cheesers to go through to produce the effect they want.

Allowing greater customization has never hurt any game that I have ever played. If you can show me one that it has hurt or destroyed please provide it.