Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

[carnalnirvana]

i definately disagree with the assessment that pre snap controls are not sim.....

first sim is subjective, so as a designer who care about fans( both sides hardcore and casual) it should be in the game with an option to turn it off.

second, if we are going to apply (strict) sim to madden, then the GOD'S EYE camera angle has to be the first thing to go.....

its probably the most un-sim thing in the game, because the player i control knows every angle and release of every pass....every run etc...

i understand if its not possible to return it at the moment, but there are wayyyyyyyy more non sim elements parading unnoticed in the game........

[Hova57]

Quote: Originally Posted by carnalnirvana

i definately disagree with the assessment that pre snap controls are not sim..... first sim is subjective, so as a designer who care about fans( both sides hardcore and casual) it should be in the game with an option to turn it off. second, if we are going to apply (strict) sim to madden, then the GOD'S EYE camera angle has to be the first thing to go..... its probably the most un-sim thing in the game, because the player i control knows every angle and release of every pass....every run etc... i understand if its not possible to return it at the moment, but there are wayyyyyyyy more non sim elements parading unnoticed in the game........

Honestly i would run with the Backbreaker qb angle maybe a little higher or lower to look out more but we will see. I think the most i've got out of this thread is the use of certain words used caused an outcry and misinterpreted quotes.

[guaps]

Quote: Originally Posted by carnalnirvana

i definately disagree with the assessment that pre snap controls are not sim..... first sim is subjective, so as a designer who care about fans( both sides hardcore and casual) it should be in the game with an option to turn it off. second, if we are going to apply (strict) sim to madden, then the GOD'S EYE camera angle has to be the first thing to go..... its probably the most un-sim thing in the game, because the player i control knows every angle and release of every pass....every run etc... i understand if its not possible to return it at the moment, but there are wayyyyyyyy more non sim elements parading unnoticed in the game........

I can't agree!

For me, a simulation game is a game that represents football in a realistic manner. When I start up the game I want to see the players move and interact realistically (physics/collision detection/locomotion/animation stuff), and behave like the real counterpart football players (AI).

Simulation is all about the gameplay, not the camera angles IMO.

[Flamehead]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ian_Cummings_EA

So just to clarify - you think that out of the box, a game should take 2 hours to complete with the realistic amounts of penalties? You don't agree with our stated vision of creating that 100% accurate representation of football but actually making the default gameplay settings and sliders a more approachable and enjoyable experience?

Not sure if I'm misinterpreting your comment or not, but here goes:

The average number of plays in an NFL game is 120. The average number of penalties per game is roughly 12. When I play a game with roughly 120 plays, I'd like to have roughly 12 penalties. If that takes 2 hours, I'm cool with that. Sim is enjoyable to me.

I don't care what the default gameplay settings and sliders are just so long as I can change them to make it more sim. That's one of the factors that makes EA's NHL franchise so steller--practically everything is customizable with sliders that actually work.

[Flamehead]

Quote: Originally Posted by carnalnirvana

this statement sums up the disconnect i feel sometimes with DEFAULT madden..... it should be football, it should always be football.... madden arcade is quick and fun...... football should always be football ahhhh.....

Good post carnalnirvana, I completely agree. Football in and of itself is fun.

[Flamehead]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ian_Cummings_EA

But you shouldn't get 13 holding penalties and 5 false starts and take 2 hours to finish. Do you disagree with that?

If I get a realistic amount of penalties and it results in a two hour game, I'm ok with that.

[poster]

Ian, please make the penalty sliders work as intended. If sliders work as intended you can make all types of gamers happy. I know you must realize it is really that simple, why it hasn't gotten any attention over the years, I am not sure? Perhaps the suits/devs decided it wasn't a priority, or it is difficult to implement without ruining another aspect of the game?

I did not purchase this years game as of yet, but I think from the demo there was a hardcode mode or something to that affect. Perhaps like NBA 2K, have a sim or aracde mode that will adjust sliders to coincide with each setting. Sim will have penalty sliders cranked up to reflect the realism alot of us want. Then everyone can adjust from there. Simple in game tutorials can explain to casual or hard core games what the settings will do.

As far as pre snap, something needs to be done to get aspects back into madden that were in previous versions. If it can't be done pre-snap (please fix the quick CPU snapping of the football! :-) ), perhaps tie it into Gameplanning (again optional for those who don't care/on or off in a setting) where pre game/halftime/even after each quarter you can adjust defensive or offensive tendencies/options. Even tie it into taking of time outs, again somewhat similar to NBA 2K where you can choose where to focus.

Just some thoughts. Also, if more stat based overlays are created (like rushing leaders, QB rating leaders, sack leaders, PPG allowed. etc), please, please ensure that it stays on the screen for a proper amount of time so that it can be clearly read from beginning to end. In fact, have a prompt that says "press X or Y or whatever to skip".

All EA Sports games that have presented these overlays, have done such a poor job of implementing this. Makes absolutely no sense that all of this work goes into this, and it is displayed for 2-3 seconds. The Extra Point scores I believe does the same thing. Whose idea is it to display such a long list of readable items for 2-3 seconds?

It boggles my mind that something could be so poorly implemented. Not a knock on you at all, maybe you guys though you could please both parties (those who want to see/and those who want a quick game), but it is an **** fail for those who want to see.

The whole point of this message and others is to give us options for everything. We are all different and play the game a different way. Don't force us to play the game a certain way, let us choose how by giving us options. Thank you!

[huskerwr38]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ian_Cummings_EA

Always a chance for big changes. 10 was tackling-focused. 11 was locomotion and blocking-focused. 12 will be ?

That is disappointing that 10 was tackling focus when the tackles in Madden are an eye sore and need to be reworked again. Tackles are by far the most unrealistic thing about Madden because of certain things like when one player engages in tackling there can not be any interaction by any of the other players to influence the tackle in progress. And also the "bowling pin" tackles are so horrible.

Another reason is that tackles don't really seem to follow any natural physics. For instance, I can come in full speed hit a guy (who is just standing there like a QB) from the front and we'll fall forward instead of flying backwards.