Madden Sales Down 18% Y-o-Y in October

[Nunyerbiz]

I don't think it's reasonable to compare NBA2K11 selling well and Madden not selling well and draw any conclusions about "sim vs casual". I just don't see the connection. NBA is seeing a large sales increase because they made a major leap in the gameplay. They improved the foundation, but they didn't completely change directions. It wasn't like NBA was an arcade game and they suddenly went "hardcore sim" and the money started falling from the sky. NHL 11 is, by most accounts, the most realistic / sim friendly title to date yet the sales are dissapointing.

The 2K folks made major improvements in what used to be a complete joke of a basketball AI system and added some good marketing touches (Jordan)... that's basically it. The game had a weakness, a weakness that effected anybody who played it, and they vastly improved it. The improved AI benefitted everybody. I'm a casual hoops gamer, and I got bored pretty quickly with being able to shoot 70% and drive to the hoop with my eyes closed regardless of difficulty settings when I played NBA2K9/10. They just were not great games. When the 2K11 reviews hit and word of mouth spread that they took the 3 or 4 star games from 2K9/2K10 and pushed them closer to 5 star territory, sales followed.

Madden hasn't had any such "major leap" since who-knows-when... the PS2 days? Madden is behind the 8-ball with the foundation, but that has nothing to do with catering to a certain fanbase or needing to change the direction of the franchise. You make a sports game with that solid foundation and it's not terribly difficult to give gamers an experience that varies from casual to sim just based on sliders. If you are constantly recycling the same lackluster foundation for three straight years then both casual and hardcore gamers are going to take notice and spend their dollars elsewhere.

[BezO]

Quote: Originally Posted by rgiles36

Agreed. I can see why EA tries to take this approach with Madden, and while the game has improved, it doesn't have a unified focus and it shows in the final product. I've grown tired of comparing Madden to other sports games, but it seems games like NBA2K have a singular focus: to be the most authentic NBA game down to the very fine details. That includes gameplay, presentation, atmosphere, everything. Madden tries to be everything to everybody, and while I see what they're attempting to do, no one is completely satisfied. It doesn't work.

I believe Madden could be everything to everybody. EA needs not to aim at the low end to do so.

Assuming casual fans make up the majority of Madden sales like folks say, the only thing differentiating a casual fan from a sim one is ease of play. A casual fan is not looking to avoid sim as I define it as it has nothing to do with difficulty. Both casual and sim fans should be able to enjoy a realistic game of football. The sim fan just wants more of a challenge, using knowledge & skill to win.

It seems easy to me. Make the most realistic game of football with working, dynamic difficulty levels & sliders.

And to clarify what I believe sim is, it's recreating the sport. It should look & play like football. Players moving how they do IRL and keying & reacting to what they do IRL is the key. How hard it is to execute is a separate matter IMO. How involved you have to be is a separate matter.

Quote: Originally Posted by MMChrisS

In today's market, you have to have a realistic and smooth presentation as well as good and well balanced gameplay. If you have both, a game doesn't have to play realistic in the sense of true to life stats in order to be considered realistic. From a psychological point of view, a lot of the gaming experience is believing what you are seeing and a good chunk of us experience a majority of our sports via the TV. The key to a good game is mimicking that delivery with gameplay that's well-balanced (ie neither the defense or offense has a built in advantage due to how the game is played). Of course, that discussion is something I'm saving up for a future Op-Ed for the frontpage at some point

This is what I'm saying above, but differently.

IMO, stats are another thing that I separate from realism. Stats are related to difficulty. The easier the game, the more yards/points you can score. But I believe the game can still be ultra realistic with a low difficulty setting that allows for big stats. There are big stat games IRL all the time. I believe a couple of QBs have thrown for 400 yards this year. A. Foster ran for 200+ in game 1. There was nothing unrealistic about any of those performances.

What EA needs to do is minipulate difficulty while improving gameplay/realism, AI, animations & authenticity. They can add effort & fluidity to animations without making the game harder. They can add gap & contain assignments without making the game harder. They can add engaged player mobility that will allow for better passing pockets, outside runs & punt blocking, without making the game harder. They can tier the defensive play calling without making the game harder. Along with tv-style presentation, these are things that give gamers what they see on Sundays. A casual fan may not understand everything he sees, but can still enjoy it looking like what he sees on Sundays.

Quote: Originally Posted by grismosw

I still think the mistake they made was starting from scratch when they went to current generation. The Show, NBA 2K, and College Hoops 2K meanwhile built off what they had already started and were light years ahead of EA. EA can't even catch up with what they already had in last generation. Outside of NHL all of their sports series are in the dumps, I think NCAA Football this year is decent but you can't get too deep into Dynasty Mode without all sorts of flaws.

I think the difference is that those games had better, more flexible engines. What they started with last gen allowed for significant additions. Madden's programming sounds like it's more rigid, thus harder to provide what many of us are looking for.

I'll never forget an EA quote many years ago implying that gang tackling was not possible on last gen systems. I don't know if the rep was unaware or just being arrogant, but 2K had already implemented gang tackling at the time of the statement. I imagine that that EA rep really meant that last gen systems couldn't handle it the way they would need to do it given their current programming.

[Keith121212]

Quote: Originally Posted by Blitzburgh

Ok, here is my take on this game from an older gamer that has played them all. I don't play it nearly as much as used to because it just feels stale to me. In order for them to pick up new players and get the old player back is to A). make the game LOOK different. B). It must play different C). Season modes must be addictive What I mean by A). this game has really looked the same since last gen except for the higher res HD graphics. There are no new playable camera angles or innovative cameras. There is no user create cameras. There should be multiple camera angles taking place through-out the play on the field. When I run the ball I want a certain camera, when I pass I want another one, when I kick field goals... you get my point. They are and have been all the same for years. B). The feel of this game really hasn't changed much over the years either. Players still slide around and even though improvements have been made to locomotion and pro tack it really is a small improvement over all IMO. C). doesn't need much explanation... It needs to be user friendly and addictive. Thanks, Blitz

EXACTLY. The game is the same old Madden that has been out for years and most people can see that. The underlying gameplay hasn't significantly changed since 2001!

[SynShadowzz]

Just wanted to chuck in the old .2 cents.

I have played Madden in 2 years. My reasons are simple:

A.) I was annoyed with buying the same game year after year after year without any sort of decent upgrade.

B.) I enjoy the NCAA franchise way more now.

C.) It became way too "arcade-y"

D.) NCAA Dynasty = 100x more fun than a Madden Franchise.

[dcsoldier]

Quote: Originally Posted by FootballForever

what about the gamers like me that sold Madden, do they have record on returns or trade in's. I'm that number would be huge.

madden has the worst turn-around rate of any sports title....and sports titles have the worst turn-around rate of all genre sooooo it might be safe to say that madden is traded in the quickest of any game out there

gamecrazy and gamestop both confirmed that madden is the quickest traded in title of any sports game.

[dcsoldier]

Quote: Originally Posted by mestevo

This is probably the furthest from the truth. Madden sales are probably close to flat if anything on the current consoles, combined with DLC and whatnot they are almost certainly getting more per purchased copy than ever before. Meanwhile there were reports like these that were conveniently skipped over... http://news.softpedia.com/news/NPD-S...t-155922.shtml http://gamertvnetwork.com/index.php/...t/article/1135 http://www.gameseyeview.com/2010/09/...-august-sales/ http://www.gamepro.com/article/news/...bies-dominate/ Relative to other games in the lame new NPD reports Madden is where it was expected, but don't let that get in the way of pointing out the 1 liner of negativity out of context with no real data so it can actually be understood from this month's NPD. People will see the flashy headline and assume the above though, that's for sure. Criticize people for using vgchartz, but then putting stuff like this out there, in addition to linking to the pretty much debunked previous article, what's that about credibility?

dude madden cash flow is dying....wake up.

the game has been underselling for years now and people still think that its doing good.....
back in 06 most of the copies were purchased at regular price because the game sold like crazy.....now the game is being sold at discounted price so its not accurate to look at the volume of sales. they are loosing money period......a stock that was once in the 35-40 dollar range is 15 dollars now.....c'mon man use some common sense here.

[Segagendude]

Meh, they'll just blame it on the economy and won't change a thing.

[dcsoldier]

i doubt that casual fans make up majority of madden fanbase.......casual fans don't comeback every year to buy the same game over and over again. 2k proved this with this year's game......go after the core of the fanbase and not the outer layers of fans that don't commit to buying the title each year.

the truth is that only a hardcore fan will comeback and buy a sports title each time it comes out.