NBA Elite Being Moved to Tiburon, EA Canada Hit by Layoffs (Not Confirmed Yet)

[sroz39]

Quote: Originally Posted by yungflo

actually, we're one of the biggest footballs states and they did not get madden right I guess, the team switch confirms cancellation? lol. How can a team that's never worked on a game before finish by march?

Just about to post this myself. This whole sentiment that moving it from Canada to the States is going to magically transform it into a better game is just plain silly. Canada is barely a top 100 ranked nation in soccer, yet FIFA 11 ( along with FIFA 10, 09 etc.) Turned out pretty good, most would agree. And like the quote above alluded to, Florida is one of the top football states in the US and yet before this year, when did Tiburon come out with a good football game? Madden 2005 on last gen? Location of the dev team is largely insignificant.

[Pared]

Quote: Originally Posted by sroz39

Location of the dev team is largely insignificant.

I would not say this is 100% true. I do not expect a team in another country to learn/know the little nuances we're exposed to here daily about the players and sports we enjoyed are covered.

Not saying this was the case for EA Canada, but I don't believe it to be a 100% tried and true formula.

[Boilerbuzz]

Quote: Originally Posted by Pogo27

So, I don't really play basketball games, but I was extremely interested in Elite, especially after the demo (because I didn't play it enough to see the glitches I guess). Knowing now that Elite is being moved from EACanada to Tiburon simply means I won't be purchasing Elite, or any EA Basketball game, for as long as the franchise remains in Tiburon's hands. I like football too much to not play the NCAA games, but when it comes to sports gaming, with FIFA and the limited amount of NHL I've played, EACanada is definitely doing a lot of things right. I'm very disappointed.

A couple of things.

1. Even if you played the demo one time, the problems should have been quite apparent. Since you admittedly stated you didn't play it often, how can you make the assessment that it would have been good enough to try? Because NHL and FIFA was good? It was that line of thinking that started them on the path that lead ultimately to their failure.

2. Ever consider that putting development of the game in a culture more in tuned with basketball COULD help it. Not saying it will, mind you, as Florida is a football crazy state, yet Madden still doesn't know a front from a coverage... But the chances are good.

3. Finally, EAC has had the Live series from the get go. In MY opinion, there were elements of the game that were great representation of the game. But there were many that were FAR from it. In all that time, the dev team, it seems, never even attempted to address these elements. So in MY opinion, while Live 10 was the biggest step forward I'd seen in a long time, EAC's version of basketball was a failure. When competition came along, the numbers showed as much. In short, they had years to get it right, and they didn't. It was time to move on.

So why should you be disappointed at all? There is no basis for it.

[Boilerbuzz]

Quote: Originally Posted by Pared

I would not say this is 100% true. I do not expect a team in another country to learn/know the little nuances we're exposed to here daily about the players and sports we enjoyed are covered. Not saying this was the case for EA Canada, but I don't believe it to be a 100% tried and true formula.

I think it's far from insignificant in this case. We're not talking about Chicago to Atlanta. We're talking Canada to US. If you have QA, focus testing, artist, engineers, designers, and marketing people growing up in a culture that is much more passionate about the sport, you'll see the different. Just look at NBA Street versus Live. Street is based off of the Live codebase, yet Street, for being an arcade game, was WAY more of a polished basketball game than Live. By far.

[Pared]

From what I experienced, there were guys there with "enough" exposure to the NBA to advance the title past the point where it was. Of course, this is in my opinion.

Why that didn't happen is not something I can answer. But there was enough feedback from this community alone to give them the idea that they weren't doing "enough" to get past the point of no return with the consumer. This tells me someone "pulling the strings" just could not grasp why their was such failure from a sales standpoint.

Then again, I also think Live 10 was given more credit than it deserved. IMO it simply incorporated 2k-style elements into Live '09's core gameplay.

There was not enough NBA authenticity, and this is where EA lost all touch with its consumer base, something I see that has been a problem with Tiburon for a while now and their football franchise.

[DaReapa]

Quote: Originally Posted by CFRMIC$

RIP EA Canada Tiburon sucks as well. Madden is an arcade game, and Elite will join them.

Same thing I was thinking. I was REAALLLY hoping that EA (Canada) could come back and put out a competitive bball game quality-wise seeing that, at least for this gen, 2K seemingly has no intentions whatsoever on improving their sluggish animation and control system. Knowing how arcadey Madden is, this leaves for me absolutely no faith in NBA Live/Elite accomplishing this. That is if this rumor turns out to be true.

[DaReapa]

Quote: Originally Posted by sroz39

So lemme get this straight; good, hard-working people are getting laid off at EA Canada because some higher ups at EA decided to scrap a game well on it's way to becoming great and go in a completely different direction because THEY can't tell a good game from a bad one? Somebody high up the ladder has egg on their face over this decision yet a perfectly competent and talented studio (they proved that with some solid leadership and strong vision from Mike Wang, they can make a very good bball game) gets tossed like it's their fault. You can't always turn lemons into lemonade and the direction they wanted to go with Elite takes years, not months, to develop. Heck, EA didn't release an NHL 06 on 360 but came back strong with 07 to much applause. I'm stunned if this is true. Getting rid of Visual Concepts worked out great for EA too, didn't it.....

Well said.

[sroz39]

I am going to get in trouble for what I'm about to say, but I really don't care because I'm bothered enough to say it anyways. The ignorance from some of you on here is incredible. That whole stereotype about Americans not being able to see past their own borders, is unfortunately in full effect in this thread. Hate to break it to you guys, but in cities like Toronto and Vancouver, basketball is HUGE. Is it as big as in Florida or California? No, obviously. But in Canada, with the diversity in our population which is especially true when it comes to the cities I mentioned above, having guys "exposed" to the game of basketball is not the issue. Anyone suggesting that is flat out ignorant.

I don't know the makeup of the dev team working on the Live series, as far as where they're all from and whatnot, but I seriously doubt that what they're lacking is knowledge of the game. Further to that, what dev team has former high level athletes working on it that are making a significant contribution to the game they're working on? I know Littman is a former professional goalie in hockey and I'm sure there's other teams that have some semblance of staff members that played at relatively high levels, but this mean anything in the grand scheme of things? If you're honest with yourself, you'll realize that's not the case. I will point again to the FIFA example, which is developed by EA Canada, in a country that routinely trails countries a fraction of it's size in the world rankings. It obviously doesn't hamper that team very much but even if they felt they were lacking in any area, they have the power to go out and hire whomever they feel necessary to improve the knowledge of whatever sports game they're working on.

At the end of the day, these dev teams are largely made up of fans of the sport they're working on. Some are bigger fans then others but I guarantee that the type of staff that 2K have and EA Canada had working on their respective basketball titles are very similar. So why does one game consistently out-perform the other? It all comes down to the direction these teams get from the higher ups. 2K has a different corporate direction than EA does, obviously. 2K has been more sim than arcade (though it's not to say it's totally sim) for as long as I can remember where EA in the past has tailored their game more to the common fan, though it still had many sim elements. Remember the last gen of sports games, especially near the end of that generation of consoles? How sim were EA's hockey and soccer titles? Everyone would agree that they couldn't be described as games for hardcore fans of the sport. 2K's hockey title and Konami's soccer title were chosen by the hardcore as far as last-gen goes. Yet, a year or so after these consoles came out, EA changed their corporate M.O. with these titles and over time, both the NHL series and FIFA series incorporated more sim elements every year and became the industry leading games they are today.

The Live series was slower to fall under this new corporate direction but the moment it did, in one and a half year's time, Wang and Co. turned the game into a very respectable and solid playing sim, culminating in Live 10 being preferred by quite a few people over 2K10. The game, with this new direction from above, became something it struggled to be since the jump to the new consoles. Yet, sales lagged behind (major trust issues from consumers, obviously) the suits panicked and went in yet another new direction. They jumped the gun. We will never know but I feel very confident that if Live 11 ever saw the light of day, with Wang and Co. allowed to continue down the path they started at the end of Live 09, it would be close to if not on par with 2K11, strictly from a gameplay perspective.

Bottom line, it comes down to the what game does the corporation want made. This dev team proved they're very capable but had the rug pulled out from under it by the decision-makers. Those decision-makers are at fault here, not the dev team. And it certainly has nothing to do with WHERE the dev team is located, otherwise Madden would be amazing (it's not) and the last gen NHL 2K series would be terrible (which it wasn't, despite it being made by Americans, not Canadians). Both Madden and the 2K hockey series are where they are because of what their respective corporations wanted them to be, and EA's basketball game is where it is because of the same reason.