Four Keys to Success for MLB '11: The Show

[MLB01]

I went back to using the left thumbstick when hitting. I'd like to share my thoughts on the PCI. I don't think it represents the bat but instead where the batter is looking.

When I aim the PCI ( batter's eye ) on the ball, solid contact is the usual result, but it could be a foul ball, fielded ball, or base hit. Some people think it represents the bat, so if the ball is at the top of the PCI, a ball hit in the air should result and vice versa, but that's not 100% true and with my slider configuration, it's not usually a base hit ( but it is solid contact ). ( solid hits @ 2, timing @ 1, contact @ 4 )

Overall, what I'm sayin' is, I like it.

[swaldo]

Quote: Originally Posted by Knight165

It is not a pre-determined outcome. It sounds like you don't want an MLB sim game....you want a generic batting cage. Thanks...but you can keep it.

When I said "pre-determined" I was referring to outcomes being determined prior to it being displayed on screen (based on various attributes, pitch type and location, stats such as H/9, swing timing & location etc.) But I understand someone can take that and suggest I was referring to a scripted outcome which is not the case.

I was going to use the word "simulation" but that could also be taken to have different meanings. For example, it sounds like what you mainly want is an accurate statistical simulation of baseball - let's call it a glorified text based sim. What I've been talking about is simulating how players actually see and play the game.

Let's take pitch recognition for example. In 'The Show' how can you tell the difference between all of the various pitches? Basically your average user will try to judge the speed or movement while the ball is in flight. In some cases this will be easy, but other times it will be a guess. In real life batters pick up the spin of a ball or the pitchers grip before it leaves the hand, or his hand angle, changes in arm speed, changes in his wind-up motion, or other "tells" which teams or players might discover through carefull study.

There's nothing in the game which simulates any of this, and when I offer suggestions you say I don't want sim?! Let's say a pitcher has a 4-seam, 2-seam, Cutter, Forkball and Changeup in his repertoire? How are you going to tell one from the other? The game needs to find a way to do this to truly call it a "sim", and if some hitters are better at it than others it will help maintain statistical integrity.

How Batters Identify Pitches.gif

[Pared]

What you suggested doesn't correlate with sim. I'm just referring to your example, mind you.

There is no flash, light, color, sound or any other aid to tell you what is what. A hitter can pick up based on many factors, such as a pitcher tipping his pitches.

What you're asking for, again if we are going by your example, is something so minuscule that most won't even realize nor can accommodate based on the changes.

Most people who play this game won't realize that sort of thing. It almost comes off as an argument solely for the sake of making an argument to me, quite honestly.

[swaldo]

Quote: Originally Posted by countryboy

Ever play baseball before? I mean, organized competitive baseball? Ever watch it on TV? You can time the pitch perfectly, hit the ball on the sweetspot and still hit the ball into an out. It happens. Just as you can be fooled, flip the bat and get a hit. Its baseball. Sounds to me you want to remove that aspect of a baseball game.

Have I ever watched baseball on TV? I shouldn't even dignify this with a response. It's the sort of comment people overreact to then find themselves banned, and discourages the free exchange of ideas. I will add this though...

"A bat swung at 65mph at an upward (Rod Carew 10 degree line drive angle) striking an 85mph fastball at a near 10 degree downward angle squarely hit will result in a 200ft line drive. The ball will go farthest (350ft) if hit about 3/4 inch below center."

Robert Adair - The physics of baseball.

Of course if an outfielder happens to be standing near a 200ft line-drive it can be an out. But let's do away with any idea that you can hit a ball perfectly but dribble it to the pitcher. Physics (with crazy hit variety) - isn't that where we want to be heading?

All I've been suggesting here are ideas that have been used in past or current baseball games (very succesfull ones) and added some of my own ideas. If you put them together and tweak it just right I think it would be a great addition to the PCI system. Do you really think SCEA will just dump that after so many years of use? No way, so what's wrong with trying to come up with options, or talking about what the next innovation in baseball games might be? Is the only innovation we're going to see is refining the statistical accuracy of the current system?

There's no need to get fussy over suggestions as if The Show is so perfect. And I'm done talking about this because most people understand what I'm saying, and if you dont agree I respect that. But there's no point continuing to go in circles if you don't understand or take what I'm saying out of context.

[Heroesandvillains]

Swaldo, I've enjoyed hearing your ideas.

Cardsleadtheway, you made BY FAR, the most important point of the thread...the development cycle.

I couldn't think of anything worse than for SCEA to change things due to popular demand, and need another three years to perfect it. MLB 10 The Show is very good as is. Tweaks next year, and nothing more as far as I'm concerned, gameplay wise.

[swaldo]

Quote: Originally Posted by Pared

What you suggested doesn't correlate with sim. I'm just referring to your example, mind you. There is no flash, light, color, sound or any other aid to tell you what is what. A hitter can pick up based on many factors, such as a pitcher tipping his pitches. What you're asking for, again if we are going by your example, is something so minuscule that most won't even realize nor can accommodate based on the changes. Most people who play this game won't realize that sort of thing. It almost comes off as an argument solely for the sake of making an argument to me, quite honestly.

People can call it "arcadey" but Ben Brinkman, the dev who originally created the "Hitters Eye" did it to make the game more lifelike. From an interview in Gaming Age 5 years ago...

GA:In your game, MVP 2005 you have a new feature called the hitter's eye. Can you go into a bit of detail on what gamers can expect from this feature?

BB: Gamers can expect hitting to be more accessible in MVP Baseball 2005 because of the Hitter's Eye. The Hitter's Eye, and specifically the ability to Read the Pitch, will make the batter-pitcher match up a little more authentic by leveling the playing field a bit between the batter and pitcher.

With the Read the Pitch element of the Hitter's Eye we tried to reproduce the idea of the batter picking up the spin of the ball right out of the pitcher's hand. This was done using a coloring scheme denoting different pitch types. We have found in focus testing and through playing it ourselves that it makes the game much more accessible for new players and adds another level of complexity for more accomplished MVPers. For the new players it helps with timing, something that has always been tough in baseball games, while skilled players can analyze the trajectory of pitches to make more educated swing decisions.

GA: I think the feature sounds very promising. What lengths have you taken that will keep gamers from "catching on" making the game too easy to hit?

BB: When we first implemented this feature this was our big concern, over time though we determined it was a non-issue. All the ability to read the pitch does is assist in determining the type of pitch. It doesn't tell you location or actually hit the ball for you. Gamers will still have to pay attention and use this pitch type knowledge to make an informed swing decision.

So note the words and terms he used: "Authentic" and "Batter picking up the spin." I'll agree putting colored balls in a game is obviously not realistic, but the spirit of the idea is very sim. And I'll agree for newcomers it may be jarring, but if you educate people (in user manuals and in-game tutorials) why it's in the game and how it's to be used I think most people would warm up to it.

And I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing. I put my ideas out there and people keep asking me questions, criticize and in more than one case disrespect so I'm just responding.

[countryboy]

Quote: Originally Posted by Pared

It almost comes off as an argument solely for the sake of making an argument to me, quite honestly.

Glad I'm not the only one who feels this way.

[countryboy]

Quote: Originally Posted by swaldo

There's no need to get fussy over suggestions as if The Show is so perfect. And I'm done talking about this because most people understand what I'm saying, and if you dont agree I respect that. But there's no point continuing to go in circles if you don't understand or take what I'm saying out of context.

No one is fussy. You've stated throughout the thread that the outcomes are random and predetermined and I've challenged you on them. But instead of addressing them head on, you post, well much like you did with the part I deleted, which is a long drawn out post and does very little to address what one has asked of you.