NBA Elite 11 Demo Available, Post Impressions Here (PS3, 360)

[2kfanatic]

This game is not as bad as I thought it would be (reading this thread really made me expect something really bad). The controls layout actually do make sense but I would like to see more options when shooting(types of shots in different situation). The be a legend mode is fun as expected but it did not really give me an idea how it will really feel in a season environment.

I don't like that they removed the turbo button but maybe it has something to do with RTP. I just hope they can bring it back because this kinda contradicts the "control everything" mantra. And running does not feel natural at all it feels like my foot is nailed to the floor or something.

[Live_4real]

My updated list after playing one more day:

- No turbo button (feels like the player only has 1 gear)

- Players play too much over the rim (offensively and defensively)

- Too easy to steal (makes the game feel even quicker, because the ball is constantly changing hands, if you spam the steal button, you easily steal the opponent, exploit)

- Alley oops are too unnatural, and feel too easy (one of the reasons for this is AGAIN the fact that the game plays to much over the rim, so guys jump like crazy hight, the passes for the respective oops are impossible to miss,and I haven´t seen the dunker missing the ball reception, or even the dunk, and limited user control, exploit)

- Almost no contextual animations (we see players shooting jumper when they could and should easily do a layup or a hook-shot because they are close to the the basket, just an example)

- Players skating a lot (we see players jumping on pump-fakes, and then warping in the air so they could stay in the play, and players skating, so they can regain position easily)

- Very dubious box-out (players often start running/jumping to the ball instead of boxing-out first, and then going after the ball)

- Players shooting jumpers with their back to the basket (sometime , when you do a bad series of moves, and you end up with your back to the basket, when you shoot, sometimes your man turns around to shoot, but sometimes you see him looking up to the stars, and shooting backwards, looks bad, and simply impossible to do in real life)

- Force fields on D (this goes against the "total control" that this game is shooting for)

- Defensive Stance (I don´t have a suggestion, I can only say that sometimes the user gets burned, losing control of the player, or the player simply moves slower then the cutter and bamm POSTER BOY)

- When a double team is on my post player, the guy that is alone should do 1 of 3 things, ether cut to the basket to the open layup, make 1 or 2 steps forward, and shoot a mid-jumper, or stay at the 3 point line, based on what the real counterparts do (I saw Ray Alen staring at Pau with both feet on the 3 point line with a open lane to the basket, neither did he cut, or assured that when I passed the ball he would immediately hit a 3pter)

- Pulling back on the right stick should have a dribble move attached to it (DEVS should try and take advantage of it to put another move in there)

- Can´t pump fake under the basket (important when the paint is crowded)-

- Too easy to dunk (the rocket dunks and the jumping abilities all help, but I feel that the DEV team can try and make them more user unfriendly, like the layups, I actually feel like the layups are very rewarding, not too difficult, and not 100% guaranteed success, I don´t have a controller solution for this, but dunking in traffic should be difficult to pull off)

- RTP collisions ( I think Mr. rEAnimator already explained to us why this happen, but when you jump over a guy with his feet on the ground, for example, you see the guy almost stopping in the air for a brief moment, it almost feel like it is calculating what to do, regardless of the animation he is doing in the air, it is like he stops, and it also happens when both are in the air, but actually both animations get higher in the air after the collision, they gain air under them, it is difficult to explain)

Visual side of things:

- Signature stuff (Right now this is not a NBA experience)

- Player differentiation (after seeing that Bynum video when he looses the ball, you felt like big men would have trouble dribbling, Pau can dribble like a PG, don´t forget, it is different to do dribble moves in the post, then when you are facing the basket with a guy in front of you, this game doesn´t do a good job in that regard..... Rondo in this game isn´t quicker then Fisher, I saw him losing ground in a open fast-break opportunity, coming from behind, no turbo???)

- Player have 0 urgency (they sometimes feel like they are just running around or simply standing still, the body language is non existent, and if you want people to FEEL the game, the players should look like they are actually playing a b-ball, like the crowd does in Elite, the players should as well)

- Player models, the basic movement animations, RTP based animations

Still having a lot of fun with this game

PeAcE

[fcabanski]

"
#1 How many times is the damn jesus video going to be brought up? One glitch a guy caught on tape and everyone brings it up. HOW MANY OF YOU HAD IT HAPPEN TO YOU?????"

It triggers often for me when calling a play. When I then exit out of the game to start a new one, the game is locked at the menu. I have to quit to the PS3 menu to restart the demo.

[fcabanski]

" I just don't think that fun should be the focal point of a so called simulation game, the focal point should be realistic. Not to put the other game in this, but when you read the box you don't see "fun" all over the place. The other game has statements like this on it's box "unbelievably realistic", and thats how it should be. "

Let me begin by saying I love the Czar. But his statement "don't play video games, play basketball" is ridiculous. Nobody playing basketball on a real court can see the action from overhead or from other advantageous angles. When playing real basketball people have to move and think ahead, and be able to think in basketball terms while fatigued - that doesn't happen in a video game.

When I created the Madden Challenge, and then met all the people playing at the various tournaments, I constantly urged people to learn and practice and play Madden Football. It isn't the NFL, it's a video game with its own quirks.

Basketball video games are games. If it isn't fun, what's the point? I agree the Elite 11 demo is lacking from the standpoint of realistic motions, AI, and other elements, but it is fun. The controls are unparalleled.

"I don't think fun should be the focal point of a simulation video game." Wow, what a statement. What should be the focal point? Work? Should it feel like a chore to play?

The other game, from its demo, is fun. But so is the Elite 11 demo. NBA Live '10 wasn't fun. It wasn't fun to play LeBron's Cavs (CPU controlled) to have LeBron generally the 3rd to 5th leading scorer, doing little to influence the game. It wasn't fun against another gamer to watch helplessly as they dribblld dribbled dribbled into traffic into the lane for yet another Kobe dunk. At least in the Elite 11 demo the right guys are the ones (CPU controlled) taking the shots and scoring. And I as the gamer control it, I feel like I can really make a difference when playing defense.

[natedZA]

I'm really not made up about this game. There are really some very good looking moments where the movements would look really fluid but other movements look really jerky like the rebounding animations. I would score a buzzer beater with Kobe and they would review it but the atmosphere wouldn't really seem like I had just won the game. I really do not like the removal of the turbo button and the 'guessing' as to when you want to sprint really does not work. Things like a floater from Kobe does look really good and does not always turn into a swish and back-rims ect.. which I like. The likeliness is also really good as someone like Pau Gasol really looks great. Another great looking thing was when I broke Ray Allens ankles with a deadly crossover from Kobe which sent Ray to the floor which resulted in a sweet open jumper.

[elprez98]

Quote: Originally Posted by fcabanski

The other game, from its demo, is fun. But so is the Elite 11 demo. NBA Live '10 wasn't fun. It wasn't fun to play LeBron's Cavs (CPU controlled) to have LeBron generally the 3rd to 5th leading scorer, doing little to influence the game. It wasn't fun against another gamer to watch helplessly as they dribblld dribbled dribbled into traffic into the lane for yet another Kobe dunk. At least in the Elite 11 demo the right guys are the ones (CPU controlled) taking the shots and scoring. And I as the gamer control it, I feel like I can really make a difference when playing defense.

So admittedly, both games are fun, but one actually resembles the what you see in actually NBA games. Live 10 was fun for me. This was an exercise in frustration. In the gym, the game was great. The controls felt good. I'm no big street fighter fan, but I could get with the hadoken for a layup. Its actually a really good scheme. The shooting feels natural. Once I got the timing down, I could hit from anywhere on the court. Now I know that would be a problem for me, because once I got online it was going to be tough to stop the 10-14 year olds whose reaction times are a bit faster than mine. I was good with that . It was once the action gets on the court where it falls apart.

The court spacing on the up-and-down view, is sub-par. It annoys me when I try to run around a pick and there isn't any real space. My created player could dunk from pretty much anywhere on the court. Rocket dunks were not gone. The RTP only kicked in I'd guess 60-70% of the time.

I've got more but my wife is coming to bed. See ya in the morning.

[dirtypuppet]

Quote: Originally Posted by rEAnimator

Will do...just not tonight. Great summary. I worked on alley oops this year. I think the xploit thing may be a valid concern (can be tuned though) but I'm curious why you think they look bad? I thought they looked quite good to be honest. You don't have the slowdown thing from ;last year and the ball contact is bang on. Just curious.

Like other aspects of the game, the animations in general are just awkward. The receiver seems to be able to take off without appropriate space and momentum to make the catch but they still often do. In doing so, they disregard the defender standing straight in front of them.

How to fix this? Add some context. If it's a scenario where either the result (alley oop) is impossible or way out of context (accidenily pressed with no player in position) then the result should probably be a lob pass/ catch.

This would yield a better animation result and include an element of risk (bad pass being picked off) that is realistic to the situation.

I look forward to you addressing the other points I made and hope they can possibly be patched into the game.

[Dachozen1]

Quote: Originally Posted by fcabanski

" I just don't think that fun should be the focal point of a so called simulation game, the focal point should be realistic. Not to put the other game in this, but when you read the box you don't see "fun" all over the place. The other game has statements like this on it's box "unbelievably realistic", and thats how it should be. " Let me begin by saying I love the Czar. But his statement "don't play video games, play basketball" is ridiculous. Nobody playing basketball on a real court can see the action from overhead or from other advantageous angles. When playing real basketball people have to move and think ahead, and be able to think in basketball terms while fatigued - that doesn't happen in a video game. When I created the Madden Challenge, and then met all the people playing at the various tournaments, I constantly urged people to learn and practice and play Madden Football. It isn't the NFL, it's a video game with its own quirks. Basketball video games are games. If it isn't fun, what's the point? I agree the Elite 11 demo is lacking from the standpoint of realistic motions, AI, and other elements, but it is fun. The controls are unparalleled. "I don't think fun should be the focal point of a simulation video game." Wow, what a statement. What should be the focal point? Work? Should it feel like a chore to play? The other game, from its demo, is fun. But so is the Elite 11 demo. NBA Live '10 wasn't fun. It wasn't fun to play LeBron's Cavs (CPU controlled) to have LeBron generally the 3rd to 5th leading scorer, doing little to influence the game. It wasn't fun against another gamer to watch helplessly as they dribblld dribbled dribbled into traffic into the lane for yet another Kobe dunk. At least in the Elite 11 demo the right guys are the ones (CPU controlled) taking the shots and scoring. And I as the gamer control it, I feel like I can really make a difference when playing defense.

For a game that's supposedly a "sim", players should not have the ability to jump from the free throw line. Might as well play NBA Jam or NBA Street if we're not looking for realism and authenticity. And What the "realistic" game does is actually teach you how to play basketball and once you start winning and knowing what to do, your B-Ball I.Q. would be that much better. Especially watching it on T.V. you recognize bad basketball when you see it. What is bad basketball? It's alot of things, but i'll give one example... when a player goes one on one too often and is not getting good ball movement within the flow of the offense, and taking bad shots, that's bad basketball. And while it is a very good and fresh idea...To me, the ball handling is unrewarding when the game doesn't play like their NBA counterparts, or the CPU is just plain bad and i'm not trying to play One on One basketball...Man I could go on and on about how much I dislike this game because I love the NBA and it's just a poor reprensentation of it. and yes it's supposed to be fun, but let it be more sim than arcade than the other way around. It's just bad basketball in this game..PERIOD, look at the quick and awkward shots the other team takes when you play the CPU. Just garbage, and yes I did see the "Jesus" youtube video, that guy could not play, but when I watched that video the CPU looked like trash, watch that video again and pay attention to the CPU controlled team and pay attention to what Rondo, KG, and Jermaine O'neal is throwing up at the basket. When you're used to realism, you see garbage when you see it.