NBA Elite 11 OS Exclusive Video: Oklahoma City Thunder @ Detroit Pistons

[mrprice33]

The size up system, while looking very nice, was completely unrealistic and made no sense. It required almost no skill.

Now, the idea of a size up is still there, but you actually have to do the moves yourself and read the reactions of the defender. If you can get him to commit one way, you then chain into a move going the other way, and go to the basket. That's how a real size up works, not just holding a trigger for a few seconds then going.

Sent from my HTC EVO 4G using Tapatalk.

[Dawgthem]

Quote: Originally Posted by mrprice33

The size up system, while looking very nice, was completely unrealistic and made no sense. It required almost no skill. Now, the idea of a size up is still there, but you actually have to do the moves yourself and read the reactions of the defender. If you can get him to commit one way, you then chain into a move going the other way, and go to the basket. That's how a real size up works, not just holding a trigger for a few seconds then going. Sent from my HTC EVO 4G using Tapatalk.

That sizeup looked so freakin stiff ..are you serious...but then again..my Sig says different v v v v v vv v v v

[The 24th Letter]

Does it bother anyone else Durants sig in NBA JAM looks better than this one? lol

Matter of fact its the best ive seen in any game so far

[rEAnimator]

Quote: Originally Posted by Boilerbuzz

This discussion, which I think in general is a good and pertinent discussion here, continues to get derailed from "control versus function" to "control versus look" and I think it's being done to justify one's argument for control. Who here would try to argue looks over gameplay? For guys like Da_Czar and 23, the issue focused on the lack of animations that reflex the physical limitations of the human body in motion. The fact that the result is ugly in their opinion is just frosting on the cake. But the 'cake' is function and function IS gameplay. I don't think anyone can rightly defend the lack of function and the breaking of reality in a 'sim' game as a universally acceptable compromise. Then we come to the misnomer of "canned" and "2p" animations being made into this pariah. This is the fact about canned animations: if you do not dynamically manipulate or create a single instance of an animation during playback, then it is by definition "canned". If you build a system that smoothly changes animations based on input and events in the game, that doesn't make the animations "uncanned". THIS is what Elite is doing as I understand it. It's not forcing you to start AND FINISH every animations. This is outstanding, but this is not new and that's fine. It may be new to EA basketball, but it's not new. It may have been taken to another level. And that seems to be too far for some people. The concept of branching and interrupting animations has been around for a long time. But to claim that having canned animations is a bad thing is silly. Almost every animation in almost every game (save few tech demos posing as games) is canned. But I don't want to detract from the main discussion. Being able to interrupt animations is awesome. Hands down. Giving you as much control as you can stand. But not every animation can be interupt-able. How about that "ankle-breaker" animation that played on the user (3:47 first video)? Do you think the user could interrupt or control that? Sure, his actions triggered it. But once it started, he had to wait until it was done. It was not interrupt-able and therefore, using the adopted meaning given: it is a canned animation. But that animation is MORE than fine. No one complained about anything but the context in which it played. How about ball pickup animation? Do you think any of them are interrupt-able? Rebounds? Not interrupt-able. And none of them NEED be! And these are key animation groups in the game. So to argue that "canned animations are bad" is misplaced. Same for 2p animation. I can start a long thread on this one in of itself. But having a 2p animation DOES NOT, I repeat, DOES NOT, preclude you from interrupting or branching from any of the animations playing on the 2 actors. If I have a problem with any decision made in Elite, it was the decision to just remove 2p animations all together instead of adopting them into the control system. But I won't sit here and try to argue the merits of 2p animations or question EA's decisions. It's their game and they know what's best for their game. If they feel it was the right decision for their game, who am I to say otherwise. I just think the anti-2p animation mantra building here is misguided though.

Great post here, just wanted to clarify a couple of things...

You state that we're branching out of animations at any time which is a good thing, but that our animations are still canned. That is true for some systems, but for others the animations are dynamic (ie not canned) AND you can branch out of them at any time.

I've touched on that in other threads, but our use of layering of animation, our used of IK, our use of blending (not transitional blends but blending in parallel) and how these are all dynamic and driven through user input and physcis, is what we mean by getting rid of canned animations.

You're right, certain parts of the ankle breakers are canned, and that is intentional. The idea is to take you out of the play momentarily, so the loss of control there is for a very good reason.

The other comment was around 2 player animations.

When we talk about two player animations being bad, the baddness comes from the limited coverage you can have which forces players to be suctioned into position for them to play out, and the loss of control due to an inability to branch out of them.

Going with animations that are played in isolation on one player, but chosen based on the physics and the collision results with the other player, adds for many more combinations and permutations of animations to play out, allows for 3 and 4 players to interact at a time without increasing the memory requirements, and makes it much more natural and part of the system for the user to be able to break out at any time.

So I agree that canned animations and two player animations are not bad in and of themselves, but they are generally used in a way (in most games, not just Live) that makes them unresponsive and breaks the immersion and sense of control.

What we're doing in Elite, we feel, gives the user a much more realistic and satisfying experience.

But you can judge that for yourself when the demo drops.

[2kfanatic]

Just please give us the control you want us to have while respecting the physical limitations of a human body and make it look realistic in terms of limitation.

[Phreezy P]

Dang I feel sorry for these devs I don't know how they can put up with these trolls. I guess they're used to it.