Robert Flores Goes One-On-One With EA Sports Madden NFL 11 Game Designers (ESPN)

[udungoofed]

Quote: Originally Posted by adembroski

But it hasn't happened yet. You're making comparisons to nothing. NHL has grown based on its gameplay strength to this point. This is the first major "hardcore" addition to franchise mode since it began its rebuilding process. You're going to make sales comparisons below, but you're comparing with versions of NHL that have not added UFAs and things like it. NHL has not made majors strides in the franchise mode department since '07.

Not true. NHL 09 added Be A Pro, NHL 10 added Be A GM (great mode, some GM AI flaws), NHL 11 improves on these modes. To say they have no made major strides in the franchise dept until now is flat out wrong.

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It has made huge strides in the gameplay department. Massive strides. It has set a new bar in creating sim-yet-fun gameplay. This is what will also carry NHL 11 sales... not UFAs. You are inventing causation that doesn't exist.

I mentioned how Free Agency is just an example of something "true fans want" and got in NHL, while Madden doesn't put it in. I never meant to insinuate this singular feature is going to be the only factor behind it's sales and I believe I did state that somewhere.

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What do you think the percentages are of hardcore vs. casual Madden vs. NHL players? I think that plays into the equation. I'd bet on average an NHL 11 player is a more hardcore hockey fan than the average Madden player is toward football.

I'd agree, because the NHL game is focused on building a game for the hardcore hockey fan, and it's increasing in sales regardless.

Madden has chosen to try and please both hardcore and non hardcore, but it doesn't appear to be yielding the same results.

If NHL doesn't have to please the casual fan and can still improve sales, why can't Madden? Madden has a much larger base of fans to appeal to than NHL does, it's not even close. Why does Madden need to approach people who aren't as into football, rather than say people who simply think Madden "sucks" or those that still prefer 2k5? Why not build a great hardcore football game and bring those football fans back to Madden instead of this casual/hardcore split.

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NHL 07 is the equivalent of Madden 10 in terms of its rejuvenation cycle. Madden 07-09 were under a different regime who, in my opinion, held our community in contempt. Just prior to the release of Madden 09, this new team took over. They do not hold us in contempt because they are much closer to us in terms of their outlook on Madden. Beginning with the '07 game the NHL team sought to reinvent itself in a new, more realistic direction. It took 3 years to realize its vision. Madden began this journey with the '10 game.

I see what you are saying with this 100% and I'm fine with it up until I recall purchasing 06-09 and quite frankly I still feel burned to this day.

Add in the changes to purchasing used copies of games (online pass) and trying to please other markets (casuals), certainly can make someone feel cheated.

It's great that the vision has finally been found, but I believe that much of the forum resentment towards EA comes from the fact that we were given a "poor game" for a few years (despite questionable review scores IMO)..and now they are focused on getting money from another market cause we're "pissed" and not as likely to buy it right now.

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Same thing with FIFA, though they took an extra year. FIFA 07 suffered from being badly timed. FIFA has a much larger potential audience than Madden, being that it is the Madden of Europe and South America. Now we're talking about a game that was already where it belonged and didn't need to rebuild from scratch. NBA 2k7 was probably the best professional sports game at the 360 launch (and the best overall was it's college counterpart).

The only use of these numbers was to show there can be growth despite the economic situation. I strongly disagree that the economy is the result of Madden's lower sales to previous years.

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Back to my hardcore vs. casual statement. The hardcore user is going to find a way to buy in a tough economy because the game means more to him. If a game's user base is made up of more hardcore users, then those users are going to carry you through a recession.

So doesn't that suggest Madden's hardcore fans have lost or are losing interest then? Shouldn't the game development be focused on "Hardcore. Franchise. Tough." rather than "Simpler. Quicker. Deeper" ?

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No, it hasn't. Once again, NHL hasn't been doing what's "boring", it's been doing what's rather exciting. Right stick shot control, great online features, board play, general gameplay improvements. Only now, since they've reached a level of greatness gameplay-wise, are they turning to franchise mode with any real focus.

I was talking about the franchise mode and NHL's Be A GM is VERY MUCH "spreadsheet management". Rows of players and ratings are there and you manage them.

Again, you are incorrect in saying franchise mode is being looked at now for the first time, simply not true.

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At any rate, Phil just said in this very thread that we're going to see a much deeper franchise mode in M12. In other words, he's not trying to exclude the 'boring stuff', but find a way to make it not boring. How can you possibly have a problem with that? NFL Head Coach's manor of handling things like RFAs, the draft, free agency, is vastly superior in terms of entertainment value than any franchise mode in existence... why would you not want them to take inspiration from it?

My point before was that what Madden refers to as boring is done within the Be a GM mode and many people weren't bored by it in NHL's new mode "LAST YEAR"

I don't disagree that Head Coach was an entirely fresh mode and I'm all for a franchise mode in that direction, but I do disagree that the old way of doing things wasn't good enough. Had Madden 06 on next gen started off with where franchise got to on last gen, I truly believe that people would have far less issues with the franchise mode, because the mode WAS good on last gen. Franchise mode was great as "spreadsheet management" and I wish we at least had that to play with until the re-design, rather than bits and pieces of it.

Nothing is worse than a partially done feature and unfortunately I believe most of next-gen's features have been that.

[Phil_Frazier]

Quote: Originally Posted by TDKing

Phil, One question... Do you think more people would have used the Online Franchise mode if it was done correctly ? I'm thinking yes! I know this is old news now so no need for you to really answer. Thanks

If I answer this question aren't I admitting that it was done incorrectly?

I do feel like the direction we chose (server based) was the right direction to go. My personal theory on why the mode isn't used isn't because we lack a free agent system. I believe it has more to do with the nature of online and scheduling. Coordinating an entire league is hard work and as soon as one person loses interest, the rest of the league is sure to follow. If we can somehow crack the issue of scheduling and more flexible timing options, I think we might be on to something.

Phil

[SteelerSpartan]

udungoofed speaks the truth

[udungoofed]

Quote: Originally Posted by Phil_Frazier_EA

Valid question here so I'll take a stab at providing my interpretation of the interviews/blog. I actually think the Madden team and the NHL team are saying the same thing, but in different ways. From the Madden side, I would very easily change my approach to the answer to match that of the NHL blog and it would have the same meaning. I'm not saying that these features are boring and that we don't want to add them. I'm saying it would be easy to simply add them into the game in a way that's boring for 90% of our audience. The challenge lies with our designers to develop a system that takes that same feature and does it in a way that is more compelling to a larger portion of our audience. NHL admitting that they worked hard, and devoted resourses to this problem indicates to me that they didn't take the easy way out as well. Just one man's interpretation... Phil

As mentioned in my response to adem, it's just unfortunate they weren't added previously so that we at least had something to chew on until the new vision is completed. I believe this to be a rather significant mistake and would have saved plenty of grief/forum rage/etc.

I suppose I'm biased as I spent an embarassingly high amount of hours building a "spreadsheet style" system to fill in the gaps where online franchise never got to, and everyone loves the league. *shrug*

[udungoofed]

Quote: Originally Posted by Phil_Frazier_EA

If I answer this question aren't I admitting that it was done incorrectly? I do feel like the direction we chose (server based) was the right direction to go. My personal theory on why the mode isn't used isn't because we lack a free agent system. I believe it has more to do with the nature of online and scheduling. Coordinating an entire league is hard work and as soon as one person loses interest, the rest of the league is sure to follow. If we can somehow crack the issue of scheduling and more flexible timing options, I think we might be on to something. Phil

If my 32 man OF could be of any help, please take a look. I mean, we're all adults (20-40) although some of us may not act it at times . We completed 4 seasons with Madden 10 and are on a set schedule to complete 6 seasons this year.

I've created a setup that offers

-Contracts (varying salary per year, based on real life values)
-IR
-UFA/RFA
-Finances (each team has their own money)
-Traded draft picks
-etc

This isn't meant to be said as a shameless plug to get attention on our league, online franchise is very big for me and anything that could help get that mode improved does me a great deal of service so I don't have to manually do it all.

If analyzing how things work and what doesn't work in my league could be of help to you, please check us out if you'd like. Again, it's all human/adults who for the most part, play real football like it should be played so I believe we give a great example for what "could be".

Let me know and I"ll pm you a link to it because I know how OS can be about posting that sort of stuff.

[Phil_Frazier]

Quote: Originally Posted by udungoofed

As mentioned in my response to adem, it's just unfortunate they weren't added previously so that we at least had something to chew on until the new vision is completed. I believe this to be a rather significant mistake and would have saved plenty of grief/forum rage/etc.

Trust me, we get it. We'd love to be able to add each and every feature listed on feature lists from sites like this. Well...maybe not every feature but I think you get the point. The NFL season doesn't wait for us to finish our game and as such, we have a fixed amount of time to work with to get the game out by August every year. Each year we have to make very difficult decisions on which features to tackle now vs. putting off another year (or two). Many factors go into those decisions and in just about every case there will be an audience that doesn't like the decision. I get that frustration as a gamer myself.

Phil

[mr_president]

Quote: Originally Posted by REDRZA

Phil, thanks for checking in. We know from a previous blog that you guys are working on franchise mode for next year. What about more dynamic player interaction like real time physics? Also, just much more dynamic tackles. We need the ability to initiate a true wrap tackle, and have other defenders "add on" or "clean up" tackles, but not a pre scripted, canned animation like pro-tak. To me, there needs to be more options with tackling. True wraps, and true gand tackles, add on and pile on, and cleaning up with some realistic physics would go a LONG way toward better gameplay and much more realism.

agreed.

is there going to be a title update that will improve the tackling and the QB play(quick snap,taking sacks..etc.)

[TDKing]

Quote: Originally Posted by Phil_Frazier_EA

If I answer this question aren't I admitting that it was done incorrectly? I do feel like the direction we chose (server based) was the right direction to go. My personal theory on why the mode isn't used isn't because we lack a free agent system. I believe it has more to do with the nature of online and scheduling. Coordinating an entire league is hard work and as soon as one person loses interest, the rest of the league is sure to follow. If we can somehow crack the issue of scheduling and more flexible timing options, I think we might be on to something. Phil

I apoligize, I did not mean "incorrectly"... I should have said "incomplete". I agree that scheduling could be a problem in the larger leagues but I was in a smaller league with 6 guys and it was great. We lost interest due to the lack of features.. especially salary cap. I don't understand why a salary cap couldn't be added in this year. You guys had the right idea, with the web/mobile interfaces but you just didn't see it through. NCAA Dynasty Mode seems to be successfull. Thanks for taking the time to respond.