Madden NFL 11: The How and Why's of Hit Sticking

[mattsama18]

Quote: Originally Posted by LiquorLogic

I don't understand how Dlineman don't have the highest hit power. Bigger people hit harder than smaller people; I mean that's just good ole common sense. Maybe it's because Dlineman usually aren't in position to deliver knock blows to WRs coming across the middle like LBs and Safeties.

Hit Power rating is based solely on how hard a player KNOWS how to hit. Linebackers and safeties should have a higher hit power rating because in order to get those shoulder-barging hit sticks requires excellent tackling technique as opposed to just grabbing someone. So in essence the hit power rating is more of a "skill" rating than a "strength" rating

[Dog]

great read. i like how the hit stick is more of a risk reward this year. i just wish hitsticks would cause more injuries if there are not as common

[R9NALD9]

Quote: Originally Posted by guaps

I'll try and make this short First of all, I found your post to be a great read. I just want to further elaborate on some of the issues you mention. While EA sports has got the acceleration 'right' for quarterback vs. defensive linemen, as you write, they haven't got acceleration right. Acceleration is how fast you reach top speed, which the game is not able to simulate. I mentioned this first when EA released the locomotion blog. Think of acceleration as a car race. Car A is able to accelerate from 0-60 mph in 5 seconds, but has a top speed of 60 mph. Car B accelerates from 0-60 mph in 8 seconds, but has a top speed of 120 mph. If the cars start at the same time, Car A will accelerate away from Car B for the first 8 seconds, period. After 8 seconds Car B will start to close the gap and eventually take the lead, if the track is long enough. Now try looking at the locomotion blog, or put Wes Welker next to Randy Moss in practice mode and run streaks and you will see that Madden 11 unfortunately doesn't get it right. Secondly, you mention Newton's Second Law of Motion (Force = Mass x Acceleration), but if Madden doesn't get acceleration right, and does not have player mass (at least with the current physics engine), then there is no possibility of getting hit power right. My theory behind the Hit Power rating is, that linebackers and defensive backs usually are in motion (mass x acceleration) when tackling, thus appearing to have more hit power. But defensive linemen would need less speed to obtain the same force due to their size and weight, and because they usually aren't at high speeds when tackling, they get a low Hit Power rating. If EA Sports were to fix acceleration and incorporate mass into the game, tackling would be function of Newton's Third Law of Motion, Force versus Force, which is the essence of football. In the above motion refers to the momentum of a player.

Very intelligent and correct post! I salute you buddy!

[ironhorse911]

i have never been able to corrrectly use the hit stick, every once in a while i get lucky. however, i am always trying to use it and i miss a lot of tackles because of it. and 2005 was a good year for Madden and Nfl 2k

[Old School SD Fan]

It feels like hit stick was removed to me, I just miss tackles with it, and when I make contact it seems like a normal hit. Preferred it before.

[TNT713]

I though the article was thought provoking, but I wasn't nearly as interested in the comparisons between Sports Science and the Hit Power for D-linemen.

I've long had a bad habit of hit sticking people. Madden 10 made it too easy to rock somebody's snot box, which is why it seems like it's missing.

I find that squaring up to a back is no longer the best angle to deliver the hit stick... I'm having MUCH MORE SUCCESS lining people up from a 45 degree angle. Generally as they are running out of field near the sideline, or as they are about to cut upfield on a sweep.

Anytime the back slows down to change direction, HIT STICK HIM.

Also, the leaning feature of the backs seems to combat the hit stick to a degree... I'd like to see the same lean effect added for defenders next year so that I can lean without going into the Hit Stick animation and lose 2-3 steps.

Later

[wilson2k11]

It goes to show how random all of Madden's ratings are, they just like play some dumb guessing game as to who should get what ratings, or just because there a well known guy they deserve high ratings. It would be nice if for once Madden did a real study on players to determine ratings, just take like a 100 different players, all different ages and sizes to compare in all kinds of "sports science" type studys, maybe then they could find out if maybe rookies are faster, more powerful, hit hard and all that, like when you compare Suh to Lewis and Suhs hitting being 60% harder, maybe all older players are in that same range as Lewis, thus all younger players and maybe rookies should have high hit power ratings.

But as I say, be nice if they did a study like that with all kinds of offensive and defensive players, could make for the best and most real ratings ever in a sports game. And if done right, and good enough it could work for a long time.

Also could go a long ways to also having proper progression in a franchise mode. Just imagine if they tested a player on everything, like is done at the combine, and for sports science one year, then the next year test him again, and the year after test him again. And if they did that with all kinds of players of all ages, just imagine how great that info would be on finding out if someone gets faster, arms get stronger, awareness gets better and everything, I bet alot of players would be more then willing to take part in testing in the off season, oh well, can hope for the future anyway. And great column.

[guaps]

Quote: Originally Posted by wilson2k11

It goes to show how random all of Madden's ratings are, they just like play some dumb guessing game as to who should get what ratings, or just because there a well known guy they deserve high ratings. It would be nice if for once Madden did a real study on players to determine ratings, just take like a 100 different players, all different ages and sizes to compare in all kinds of "sports science" type studys, maybe then they could find out if maybe rookies are faster, more powerful, hit hard and all that, like when you compare Suh to Lewis and Suhs hitting being 60% harder, maybe all older players are in that same range as Lewis, thus all younger players and maybe rookies should have high hit power ratings.

Easy now buddy The two 'scientific' tests aren't compatible. And here is why...

First, the two tests aren't identical.

Second, the test with Ray Lewis show him (at approximately 250 lbs) smash a door with more than 1,000 lbs of force from 3 yards away. Simple calculus shows that his forward momentum was approximately 9 mph at impact.

The example with Suh shows that Suh hits with 3,200 lbs of force at a weight of 307 lbs. Again simple calculus shows that Suh forward momentum at impact is approximately 23 mph as he throws himself forward into the tackle dummy. That is 73% faster than his top speed - in Madden terms his speed rating.

If Lewis were to hit at the same forward momentum (23 mph) as Suh, he would have tackled the dummy with more than 2,600 lbs of force because he weighs approximately 250 lbs.

In short Suh supposedly "only" hits 23% harder than Lewis all things equal.

Edit: Suh's speed rating in Madden 11 is 71. That translates into a Hit Power rating of 123, if his hit power were to be 73% higher than his speed rating.