Old Madden Ratings Site Reborn Under New Management

[Maelstrom-XIII]

Quote: Originally Posted by tlc12576

The problem with this Maelstrom, IMO, is that you still risk having to lower a players AWR in the future for ratings balance. I think it's best to let whatever the player did in college or system they played under in college only effect their potential grade, not their AWR.

I actually have an issue with this, as a players potential isn't at all affected by what system they played in college. It affects how ready they are for the pro game, but not what athletic ceiling they could reach (which is what I think when I hear Potential)...In all honesty, I'm not really sure what the best way to calculate rookie AWR would be, but I'm not ready to say that just because Jimmy Clausen played in a pro style offense his potential should be higher than Tony Pike's...rather, I'd say that Clausen is more pro ready RIGHT NOW. Hence, a higher awareness in my opinion...that's just my thought.

[tlc12576]

Quote: Originally Posted by Maelstrom-XIII

I actually have an issue with this, as a players potential isn't at all affected by what system they played in college. It affects how ready they are for the pro game, but not what athletic ceiling they could reach (which is what I think when I hear Potential)...In all honesty, I'm not really sure what the best way to calculate rookie AWR would be, but I'm not ready to say that just because Jimmy Clausen played in a pro style offense his potential should be higher than Tony Pike's...rather, I'd say that Clausen is more pro ready RIGHT NOW. Hence, a higher awareness in my opinion...that's just my thought.

That's a great point. That considered, all the more reason why AWR lowest base should be set very low. If Clausen comes in with better AWR than Stafford, thats cool as long as the rookie base is set low. This allows Stafford AWR to potentially progress above Clausen AWR without having to lower Clausen's.

Agreed?

[at23steelers]

Quote: Originally Posted by tlc12576

That's a great point. That considered, all the more reason why AWR lowest base should be set very low. If Clausen comes in with better AWR than Stafford, thats cool as long as the rookie base is set low. This allows Stafford AWR to potentially progress above Clausen AWR without having to lower Clausen's. Agreed?

My problem with it being too low is, if it's the CPU, they will throw far too many INT's with an awareness of 20. Or, if it's a rookie CB on your team with an awareness of 20, he will get beat almost every time. I think awareness would play too big of a role, compared to the QB's throwing power and accuracy or in the CB's case, the coverage. I think every system will have its flaws, and it seems like the more detailed you get, the harder it is to make it a universal system. IMO, DCEBB has the best system with just subtracting 10 from overall, and adding from there based on how many years in league. It won't matter if they are a bench warmer or a starter, because that's what the other attributes are for.

I must say this thread is what CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM is all about!

[MissionMaximus]

Terrible ratings for the Saints. Randall Gay higher ratings than both J.Greer and T.Porter come on now. Lot of other questionable ratings.

[Megatron2k7]

I love this thread. I feel like I've finally met up with some fellow gamers who understand football, and how important it is to fix these ridiculous ratings. I've been fixing my own rosters for the last few years now, and it's definitley a time consuming hobby. Many thanks and kudos to any of you who are in the same boat.

Awareness is gonna be tough.

It may be too hard to accurately rate players without sprinkling in some opinion.

Rating a players awarness based off of their overall score - 10 + yrs in the league might not work very well.

Take for example, an old Punter who's leg strength has diminished a lot in his older yrs, yet his kick accuracy is still high. His overall rating would suffer greatly from the lack of kick power, and each year that his leg continued to get weaker, his awareness would never be able to go up while his reducing kick power kept dragging down his overall.

I am disgusted when I play franchise mode in Madden 10 and I see my veterans dropping Awareness points at the end of a season. Why they program the game to do this is insanely silly. Its like they don't truely understand what their own rating even means. I seriously have my doubts. lol.

I don't have a quick or simple answer for you on how to rate players awareness, but I do know, that the older players definitely need to have some physical attributes decllining, but their awareness needs to keep getting better until the day they retire imo.

Older players with physical skill diminishing still have a place on many teams. The Patriots signed Junior Seau last year, and even though for his age he is in great shape, he is no where near the physical specimen he was in his younger years. His awareness gained from all his experience still made him a better option to plug into their defense than many of the athletically superior young players on their team. I would give Seau an average to slightly below average overall rating based on his current skill set, yet he would need an awareness rating in the 90's at least. What would that do to his overall rating then...?

[Maelstrom-XIII]

If anything, this discussion gives me a bit more respect for Donny Moore, who has to come up with a system (even if it is one that many of us have complaints about) for all this stuff...

@ Megatron2k7 - I agree that awareness shouldn't drop, UNLESS there's extenuating circumstances...you know, like you reach retirement age (65) while playing QB for the Vikings (ahemFavreahem). Senility is something, huh?

In all seriousness though, I'm all in favor of setting a ceiling for rookie awareness...I mean, it seems to me to be a solid system. On one hand, you can sort of contain rookie OVR better, and as far as the rookies performing worse than veterans (ie the rookie CB getting burned) I think that's okay, for the most part. Are there rookies who contribute very well? Yes. However, balance that with the amount of rookies who just look lost sometimes...A blown coverage against a veteran receiver and a veteran QB is something to be expected. And rookies are often benchwarmers, role players or special teamers until they can progress a bit. I think it fits fairly well with what we see on Sundays (and Monday and Thursday nights)...and I'm not certain that other attributes are a fair example of starters vs backups. As Megatron pointed out, Seau was athletically inferior to many players on the Patriots roster (so his attributes would've been lower) but his awareness, and field intelligence is what put him in the lineup.

Thoughts?

[cubsball899]

Quote: Originally Posted by at23steelers

My problem with it being too low is, if it's the CPU, they will throw far too many INT's with an awareness of 20. Or, if it's a rookie CB on your team with an awareness of 20, he will get beat almost every time. I think awareness would play too big of a role, compared to the QB's throwing power and accuracy or in the CB's case, the coverage. I think every system will have its flaws, and it seems like the more detailed you get, the harder it is to make it a universal system. IMO, DCEBB has the best system with just subtracting 10 from overall, and adding from there based on how many years in league. It won't matter if they are a bench warmer or a starter, because that's what the other attributes are for. I must say this thread is what CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM is all about!

but when everybody's rating is fixed that wouldn't be an issue... the CB you mention wouldn't be getting burned by every joe schmo WR in the league with poor route running or something, but if you have your poor CB covering Larry Fitzgerald you better be damn sure to double team him every time... ya feel me?


as far as awareness for veterans...i kinda tie it into route running for an aging WR.... he may lose a few steps or not be able to go up and pull down a jump ball anymore, but he has learned a few 'tricks of the trade' through his years in the league ya know what i mean? the WR won't be able to burn anyone at any time anymore but he may be able to set up his cuts better or he may be better at finding the soft spot in the zone and just always seems to be "on the same page" as his QB...

awareness is a very difficult concept to put a number on which is why i think they should slowly start deleting numerical ratings

also think that the formula for awareness doesn't quite work... i think it needs some human insight because the formula won't take into account guys who are just students of the game... the guys like Peyton Manning who are absolute football nerds, versus the guys like Randy Moss who get by on athletic abillity.... ya know?

[DCEBB2001]

Quote: Originally Posted by MissionMaximus

Terrible ratings for the Saints. Randall Gay higher ratings than both J.Greer and T.Porter come on now. Lot of other questionable ratings.

First of all, not all of the 17000 players have been updated. The players that have been updated have last names beginning with A, B, E, I, J, some K, N, O, P, Q, U, V, W, X, Y, Z. However, some rookies with these last names have also not been completed. Also, these ratings are from March ie: the offseason rating pre-draft. They will be updated again during training camp and the preseason with weekly updates to follow. Keep in mind that injuries also affect the OVR rating.

And since you asked, Porter is now an 86, Gay an 80, and Greer an 82 as of today. They just have to be updated and will be throughout the rest of the summer.